Wow! What a day teaching children how to identify conflict in a story, discuss power struggles and how they come about without being shocked by what was shared. You see, the kids started blurting out how dad likes to make mom cry and how mom spends money when she's mad at dad. Also declared was how dad's girlfriend makes sure she's just the "girlfriend" (picture a child making the air quotes while saying this) so she doesn't have to take on any "mommy" duties. (again, picture the same air quotes) I told the students we couldn't go on until the grown up stuff was set aside. Naturally, the girls began to share their own stories of control; controlling boys in relationships and making sure they don't talk with other girls. The boys talked about trying to control who their girlfriend hangs out with and also keeping her away from her own friends. At the end of the discussion a student raised his hand and said, "So really this power struggle stuff has been going on for decades and we still don't have it right". We had further discussion and explanation that I won't bore you with here. However, it reminded me of the comments on the previous post. When I think about my own sometimes unwavering schedule I began to remember that the men who've tried to date me somehow fit me in instead of me fitting them into the schedule. These men also had more custody of their kids than their exes. They knew I had a window of time and moved their workout routine or left work a little earlier to make dinner plans work with me when they didn't have their kids and honestly sometimes even when they did. I know, I know, I'm lucky but isn't that taking the lead and saying I'll make it work? When I was reading the comments posted, I felt there was an underlying control and power struggle issue going on in many of the comments. I also felt there was a lack of understanding that even though both parties may want to be together someone has to bend and in some cases only one can and in others both can, you just have to figure out which one you are. When my students shared their stories without prompting, I thought of children I know and what might possibly come out of the mouths of babes and sometimes parents need to think how they'd feel if this adult reality was shared by a child in a public forum. I guess that's what was going through my head; what would the kids in the previous situation have to say about the adults in it? Would the child be happy that mom wanted special time but didn't want to admit it because it wouldn't be what dad wanted to hear? Would the little girl repeat how cool her mom's boyfriend is because he went out of his way to make her feel like a princess instead of going to practice? I know there have been times when getting together and trying to make family time or even adult time happen is next to impossible due to sport schedules but in my past I found men who shared the same thoughts on both. I'm sure it strengthened the relationship and created tighter bonds. Have you learned anything about your own actions from your kids, do your kids play each parent off of one another or tell each a different story knowing it's what you wanted to hear? Just some food for thought...
© 2010 Savannah Jones
I love this "food for thought" and no air quotes on this one. You have a way of making me see the other side of situations when I read your blog. I want to know do you see the other side to this? Do you wonder what happens when the child does say these outburst in class and another student goes home and repeats it to his family? My son comes home more than once a week repeating a friend or two's issues with their divorced parents. One boy's dad is a coach and an overachiever. He didn't like a boy on his team because he was different then the other boys. That man's child spoke up in class and told everyone that his dad has a small male member and it's why he can't keep a woman. My son came home and thought it was really funny so he told me and my boyfriend. I know this man and this is true because I once dated him. What should you do when you know this is being said in class and you wouldn't want it to go unnoticed?
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ReplyDeleteI haven't had this experience happen but I teach older children and this sounds like an elementary school aged comment. I always remind my students when I know there'll be a sub in the room to be very careful because people talk and you never know whose mom or dad is your teacher for the day. I also remind the classes that students can become the center of dinner conversation based on their behavior and words so be appropriate in class. You can lead a horse to water...As far as what should you do about knowing this was said in class, I guess it depends on your relationship with the man. If you think this is something you'd want to be told then you might let him know that his son is kind of talking out. Usually, a teacher will find a delicate way of putting the situation into the right words and make a call home. This is a lot of information being shared of an adult personal nature so I know I'd make the call to let the parent know but also to inform the parent that whatever conversations are taking place around this child it might be best to curb them. You also never know if the ex wife might have made this comment or a girlfriend breaking up with the man blurted this out to be hurtful. Either way the parent needs to know and will probably know how to get to the bottom of who said it and how to stop further embarrassment.
Savannah Jones
Great point but parent's who treat exes choice to pull their kids out of sports don't have enough respect for their exes in the first place so do you think the people really care if their own child repeats nastiness about it all? I know a guy who degrades his ex wifes choices even if she was a saint he'd be this way. Savannah, do you think kids have late trauma or delayed trauma to divorce needing the time with the one parent usually gone the most around the age where kids are actively involved in sports and extra activities? You're an educator what do you think? I am a single mom and feel around 4th and 5th grade boys and girls need more time with the opposite sex parent and craves it more. I'm no expert but what do you see as a person seeing many kids a year?
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ReplyDeleteI know what you're saying but stages of grief and the way people handle trauma, separation, and more really doesn't follow a standard. There are many things in common with the grieving process and some people have that process interrupted too soon with other worries and concerns and it shows up later unfinished. But as far as connecting with an opposite sex parent at different stages...There are many different psychological views on this and it all depends on who you want to believe. Just check out Freud for one example. Here's what I do know - anytime a child is displaying new behaviors or focused on a topic more than usual such as divorce and family dynamics it may be the mind trying to make sense of it all but most importantly ASK. I'm not a doctor but whenever I see a change in a child I don't suggest a whole lot of activity because sometimes that doesn't allow the time the child needs to communicate or deal with the problem. I suggest talking, family time traditions, journal writing, and if needed counseling. Most parents are in tune with their kids and the changes...if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - it must be a duck. At different ages kids will need more time and then less time with parents the key is paying attention to your child and not always the norms, books, and other kids.
Savannah Jones
You are one lucky woman to find men who have their kids. It means something to me when a dad has his kids over the ex wife. It also means these men thought you were important and had deep attraction and feelings for you to make it work out. No wonder you believe in momentum and time. If I was used to this from other men, I'd expect it or want it from any man I was involved with. I didn't have this I only had one night a week and every other weekend and still wanted this guy and I decided why should I put up with this even though I loved this guy. I found a man who paid a ton of attention to me and now I'll never date a man who calls me after the kids are in bed and makes me stay up, or only has a couple of nights and every other weekend. The last man I was with found a way for us to blend our time with the kids and find adult time. He knew how to fit it in and make it happen. I was so into him because he did this. His kids didn't suffer from lack of time he was with them 50/50 and what's with this rule if a parent has their kids they can't go out. That's crap if you were married you'd leave your kids and you'd be with them less as a married couple because studies show single parents spend more concentrated time with their kids because the time is set aside. I'm just sayin.
ReplyDeleteIt's all about investing in relationships - Savannah you were all over this yesterday in a conversation with adults. I thought it was great you were on track with the thoughts about investing in time, money, love, kids, and yourself. I think the way you phrased it all made us laugh but you have that way of making us laugh by being serious in a funny way. I think the question I asked you is one parents should ask of themselves. Would your child grow up and know you believed in him/her and invested in him/her but also knew when to let them row the boat even if it's right into a mess? Too often we send the wrong message to kids and spend way too much time pushing our kids and give them what they want or enroll them in what they want but don't teach the kids how to just be a family, how to be alone and still and instead the kids just drop. It effects relationships and I also think parents use their kids events as shields. If it's an emotional issue that needs attention I get that but if it's practice's let the kid know he/she can't be part of everything and talk about how it will effect time with family and view of family. I mean what are we doing raising kids who will tell their own kids worry about yourself and not me. No way! I'm also a teacher and these kids go on about how dad or mom will be upset if they want to drop out of sports or band or chess club.
ReplyDeleteI was one of the kids in a class shouting out that I found my dad's porn magazines. Now it's a kids shouting out that dad got a hot text from a woman that wasn't mom. Either way you are enlightening those of us that aren't in a classroom that our kids will talk even if we think they won't.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter brought my girlfriend to a school award assembly because I couldn't be there. My girlfriend and my ex wife sat together. The next day my daughter was asked how come her mom and dad's girlfriend get along? The teacher called to tell me what my daughter's response was, "My mom is glad she's not married to my dad anymore but is happy his girlfriend loves him enough to take care of him so he's around for us (the kids)". The teacher thought it was the sound of a well adjusted young adult and thought I should know. Other teachers might have thought this was mean spirited but it wasn't. I agree we don't live in a perfect world but we do need to impress upon our children respect for the situations each is growing up within. My ex girlfriend used to tell me she'll never have to explain her ex to her kids because they'll find out. That is a true but unfortunate situation. The kids will learn what each parent lived and decide for themselves. If the kids start expressing personal news in class, I'd start looking within. It's not really like your headline out of the mouths of babes it's intentionally letting people know their problems that affect the child.
ReplyDeleteWhat if your kid shouts out that he likes dad's "friend" more than his mom? That's what happened in my classroom.
ReplyDeleteWhen a woman takes the time to get a sitter and leave her kids to have dinner with me, I consider her a canidate for my next wife. It means that if we marry she'll still understand balance. I also want to understand and suggest that men and/or women get drivers to practice and you don't have to be at every game and practice or party. I have the after care nanny get my sons ready for practice and I pay her to drive them and bring them home. The extra 20 dollars three days a week has allowed me to date again. I have a built in kid time. I used to workout at that time but reflected on what I really want and running can be done on my time and I can be available to meet someone with my after care woman in charge at home. It is about balance and rescheduling regular routines.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Savannah, I dated a woman who had a schedule that couldn't be rescheduled because it involved other people and appointments where she needed to be there. I think any caring man interested in a woman would figure out what he had to do to fit in to your life. If a man can't do this he probably isn't for you. How has having a man who can do that compare to a man who doesn't think to do it? I'm curious but I'm also flattering myself.
I thought I found my soul mate when she took time to be in my life. One day she came home and found her kids on the couch drinking with friends. She never left her house again to be with me. I know her kids see their dad and it's a built in babysitter. Why not go out during the dad time?
ReplyDeleteFlattering yourself man or just figuring it out man, I could call you either since you somehow have evolved according to your comment. Your question was tossed around a lot today. Basically, there's no comparison because the man who actually does it, is the only man to consider. There's more to this story and setup but I'll try to hit it...some men think the woman isn't into them or don't catch when circumstances have changed. For instance, right now I have more free time at the last minute. I know that last minute isn't easy to schedule but there are men who have made the last minute warning work in their favor. It was a matter of knowing who to call to fill in as driver or oversee the house, accept that you're kids are old enough now that leaving them alone for two hours is actually a reward for earning trust and learning independence, feeling fine with adult time even if it's your own weekend with the kids, and mainly deciding who you want in your life and to what degree. For any woman who has challenging situations in her life, knowing a man is doing this just to spend whatever time is open for him and makes it happen goes a long long way. Just ask any woman in this position and she'll tell you she doesn't know why the guy didn't run for the hills but then will add he really loves her. I'll let you in on a little secret - there are men who have challenging schedules too because they can't find sitters and/or drivers, there isn't a mom in the picture at all to negotiate and explain about wanting more adult time, some kids even older ones have issues that are being worked out and require parental supervision. It's not always the woman that needs the man to fit in but if you're up against men who've come through and your not; you won't stand a chance even if those men are in the past; at least not according to the women I know.
ReplyDeleteSavannah Jones
Found Soulmate person,
ReplyDeleteSounds like this is a question for the woman not me. It also sounds like you didn't ask because you would have mentioned the excuse given. Anyway, being a mom of teens and having friends with teens I do know that even if the kids are with the other parent, the kids have a way of playing one parent against the other. For example, let's say the kids know mom's going to be out because it's dad's weekend. Just because it's dad's weekend doesn't mean the kids aren't keeping to their teen routine of mall, movies, fast food, and in some cases drinking on someone's couch who isn't related. My point is you never know what's going on in or through this mom's head if you don't ask her. She just might be tired and wants to enjoy her home while no one is in it. I know for me that's a rare occasion. Again, ask her and then write in.
Savannah Jones
I have an answer and advice for the man who doesn't know why his "soul mate" doesn't want to see him anymore after being out with him and then finding her kid drinking at home. If the kid was drinking at his own home and didn't get rid of the evidence before mom came home then I think the mom is dealing with a big teen problem bigger than going out with some guy. My advice is to email her or call and leave a message saying you understand that her life might have just become chaotic unexpectedly and ask her if she needs some help. She probably will respond letting you know what's going on but don't ask her out. Don't ask if she wants to have coffee, say, "Let's have coffee this week, pick a day." If she can't pick a day don't push. Tell her if she finds herself alone one night for an hour and wants some company you'll be happy to be there for her. I know this works. I've been that woman. My daughter was into some things she shouldn't have and the man that stole my heart wasn't the man I was out with when I caught her it was the man who answered the phone when I had free time and said hey let's get a cup of coffee I'll figure out what to do with my kids. He is also the man who would help me take care of things I couldn't remember needed to be taken care of like bills, and due to this problem the insurance needed to be looked at and helped with money. He wasn't loaded with riches he was an average man with an average job and three athletically involved kids to support but if he could help me he did and never did he make me feel bad for taking it. I've been fairly asked if he was so great why isn't he around anymore? Unfortunately, his job had him relocating and with it was a bonus he couldn't turn down but even now he's in my life but in a different way. Savannah is right when she says that someone will come through in ways another man isn't and that's the man who will steal the woman's heart. It may take more time because most women who have teens like this don't have time to notice. I know it took me a long time to see this is who I was calling and this is who answered and met me out and helped me out. That man I was out with when I caught my daughter I had dated for two years but he didn't want to change his schedule with his ex wife to match mine, he didn't want to be there to talk unless his kids were in bed, he didn't want to make a life for himself so he overscheduled his kids and said he was doing it for them. His kids were doing it for him because they didn't want to let him down. One sport at a time per kid with one practice and one game a week would have allowed this man a life. I know it's not something people want to say but unless you have the next Michael Jordan you don't need to play the select teams you need to have fun and the single adult can explain to a child that this is requiring a lot of time and maybe even an outlet to hide what the child would get to express if he had more down time. I'm on my soapbox because I've raised three kids and sometimes you need to get off the runaway train before it becomes a trainwreck and you look back at collateral damage.
ReplyDeleteI like the advice the woman gave to soul mate and I like your advice. I'm a teacher and this started with what kids repeat. A teen with a problem doesn't repeat the part about the problem but the teen will repeat to their friends all about mom or dad's dates. Each person is talked about. If the parents could hear how this all comes out in the wash they'd stop pushing their kids in some areas and push in others. Self discovery is important in preteens and teens and it's hard to do when always having a schedule that's booked with activities that don't involve talking with the parent about anything other than the game or practice. When kids have a chance to have a life they stop talking about their parents life in class.
ReplyDeleteMEN - News Flash - Savannah is right when she says the man that doesn't just answer the phone but shows up and figures out how to work out his life to be there will be the man that gets the girl in the end. It might not be the man she was going for but it will be the man in the end. You can't be that man if you don't show up. There'll be a give and take in relationships. Partners take turns needing and giving. Life just works that way and when it doesn't that's when it's time to rethink what's happening in the taking person's life. Is your life easier and less stress and if it is then be thankful and be there for the other person. My friend has stress I am talkin real stress the kind that she has is hard for women to manage alone and she is alone. Her kids don't talk about her escapades they talk about her time and care. I get her to talk about the advances others make and the calls she makes that end up in the next best thing that might become the best thing. Let the kids know you as a parent and it's okay to miss a practice too. I just wanted to put that in here too.
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