The meet and greet...so you're on your first date or your first meeting and it's taking place over a meal out or drinks. The bill comes and for some the answer to their future with this person all comes down to the check. A long time ago who pays was discussed but the replies became about taking advantage of someone with money and being treated to a night out rather than really stating how some people have a way of using this moment as a defining one with regards to future dates. Are men looking for some sign that they have some room to ask a woman out again or not? Are women careful to offer or not offer to pay to make sure the man catches on quickly to the message? Dating isn't new to me but this concept has baffled me that there's this much of a guessing game all at the end of the meeting regardless of what led up to it and all of the nuances during it. I know I'm going to get a lot of grief for making this statement but in my early dating years it was proper for the man to take out the woman and if a woman asked to split or take care of it, it was an insult to the man's ego and ability to provide. Recently I was asked to decide if the offer from a woman on a first date to split the check should be taken as a sign of rejection. I said no I would think for a first meeting she was being thoughtful and if she's the one who initiated the date maybe she's feeling somewhat responsible for it. Well...the what rock have you been hiding under look was shot at me by more than one younger person. I was bombarded with statements such as: " She didn't like him so she offered and that should tell him not to ask her out again." "She doesn't think he can afford her so she's dropping hints now." " She probably wanted to go home and not feel bad that he paid for her meal but she's going to reject him anyway." Oh my, I thought, what happened to just being nice and offering. I threw out this thought - What if you accept her money, what does that mean? Apparently it can mean anything ranging from, "I'm so glad that I didn't get taken for the whole horrible time." " I thought it was going well, guess I was wrong." and "I'm glad we feel the same and I won't have to let her down easy." Finally, someone my age showed up and said, he'd turn down the offer either way and pay because that's what a man should do. Dating has changed as far as finding dates online but has it all really changed? Are we sending signals through our wallets? What if a woman doesn't want to see the man again but let's him pick up the check, does that have a meaning or signal to it? I've seen more men take pride in being able to treat a woman to a night out than when they take a woman's money but I get the feeling that's just me...
What do you think? Is the answer to how your date is going all wrapped up in who pays in the end?
©2009 Savannah Jones
August 21, 2009
Is the answer all wrapped up in the check?
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22 comments:
Savannah,
Welcome to the young and unwise dating scene. Like you, I believe in picking up the check at all times for a woman. I don't believe if a woman offers especially on a first date that it means anything less than her being kind. I know the economy is bad but the young don't understand chivalry and it isn't dead.
Yes Savannah these are the signs of a woman not wanting to see a man again. If a woman offers she's saying I don't like you or please don't ask me for another date.
Savannah Jones,
I like the catchy way you write. I never offer because I was raised that a man should take care of a woman. I think a man should be offering but not just an offer. I think a man should take his wallet out before a woman can reach in for hers. I'm old school I guess.
Ms. Jones,
I'm 42 and divorced. I am also a dating man right now. I would be insulted if a woman offered to pay for the date. A bad date is still a lesson and I would pay either way. I don't think less of any woman who accepts my picking up the check and doesn't accept my offer for another evening out.
I'm 29 and not sure I fit in on this site but my opinion is we also were raised in a different time. Both parents are working and expenses are shared maybe that's why the woman offered to pay for the first date. If she goes on a second date and offers again then she's not into him.
I'm searching for dating and who pays? I'm wondering if I should offer since I contacted the guy on Match. I made the move to meet and picked the place. He agreed to meet but is he also expecting me to pay or is he? What does everyone think who reads this?
I offer when I don't want to be asked out again and I also offer when I want it clear I just want to be friends. If I don't offer it's because I like the guy
If a woman asks if she can pay her half or split the check she's not going on a second date. The theory has always worked.
Did you accept the offer? If you did that might be why you didn't get the second date...just saying
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
I do accept the offer. If the woman offers, I take it because in my world it means I don't want to date you. The woman doesn't want to go out with me, then I don't want to be out the money.
"The theory" how stupid. We offer to be nice, we don't really want you to take it. If you do take it you're a stupid fool. If you take a woman's money without it already being a condition set on before the date for example, if she said she was taking you out for your birthday, then that explains it all. She doesn't like you because of this no matter how much women insist, they don't like it when you take their money. Just like men there's parts we like about new roles and expectations and parts we don't. Just because most women work these days doesn't mean we want to pay. When we pay we don't feel like a woman or in any sense that the man is able to care for us. Most men still want the feeling that they have provided for a woman even if it is a friend that's a part we women want to make sure still exists in a man.
As a 47 year old man who's been divorced and dating on and off for 6+ years, I've found that often, but not always, if a woman offers to split the check on the first date, there hasn't been a 2nd date. If she does offer to split, I will decline and pick up the tab, cause it's the proper thing to do. If I'm interested, I will ask to see her again, even if she did offer to split the check, as I generally need more then one meeting to see if we're a good fit, and sometimes the rule is wrong.
But more often the rule, in my experience, has held true. I am only a sample of one, however.
Men, What you are saying is that if I try and do what I'd think you'd want which is to offer to pay for half, you think I'm not into you and if I don't offer -- aren't you going to think something else in a derogatory way? What this is saying is, is that women can't win for trying.
The world is confused Savannah because if we don't offer we're bitches who feel entitled to things. If we don't want to go on another date and we don't offer then we are takers. A guy who lets us pay isn't someone we want to be with and that's why we usually say no. If you're on a date with a man and you offer to pay half, the man if he holds the belief that it's a secret code will get a look on his face or make it obvious that he thinks he's been rejected and it's that non-verbal cue that causes us to not go out again.
I offered to pay half because I felt the first date I wanted the guy to think I was being respectful. The guy cocked his head, his mouth had a different look, and the eyebrows went up like some radar had been picked up. I'm a school principal and enjoy meeting new men. I also feel that I should offer to pay half but when I see a guy get some notion that it's a no go, it really does become a no go because of that negative vibe not the time before it.
It comes down to confidence. If a woman offers to pay half I do my best to show confidence that I will still be told yes to the second date. I've NEVER lost at this.
It's in the delivery and the response when a woman offers. I use this:
"Thank you for offering, but I've enjoyed this and would like to take care of the bill. I wouldn't have it any other way." I don't say it like that every time but close.
Okay, I know plenty of women that would change their mind if they were thinking you weren't going to get another chance, they offer to pay half and then you say your line...They'd change their mind and probably give you that second date.
This Friday I offered but I told him I was happy to pay for half but only if he took me out again. It worked and we went out again Saturday night and going again this week. By the way he didn't really take my money.
Oh g-d Savannah, these men are really believing we're in on this unknown set of rules of sending the no second date karma. No wonder there isn't a second date, it's not the guy but it is the way he deals with the offer.
I am 50 year old man and if a woman asked to pay her half of the bill on a first date I wouldn't like it because she takes away from the feminine aspect of herself. I like being a man and while it's nice that a woman understands not to assume much, I like a woman who wants to be treated like a woman and by lack of asking has demanded it.
Someone on here mentioned eyebrows going up and it reminded me of why I once offered to pay my share. This guy had long eyebrow hairs sticking out. He wasn't groomed properly and was almost 50 years old. Don't guys know to go and have the brows cut short to the forehead? Still thick looking but short. The eyebrows were a problem for me to getting romantic. I couldn't even see kissing him and he was attractive but for that. I offered because I could tell he also wasn't showing a happy side not a mean side but a stressed side of being on a date and I knew he subscribed to the offer and there's no second date.
The answer is all wrapped up in the check I can tell if a woman likes me if she doesn't offer but if she does, I don't take it.
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