Do you ever blame your actions in your own relationships on outsiders and their opinions? Do you date someone who does? In my own life I was asked straight up by a close friend not to answer as me but to answer as Savannah would. Did he suddenly like Savannah better I wondered? Then, it came to me...he thinks as Savannah it would be an objective opinion but as me it would be biased me giving advice based on who I know him to be. Inwardly I looked and thought would the advice be the same? He felt it would be the same however delivered differently. The advice would be in a generic form as in ... people should or one could consider and he could then feel removed emotionally from the problem to make a decision and in some way feel that he entered a common ground with others who will do the same in the situation. He reiterated the importance of looking at the problem objectively and unemotionally. I explained the importance of understanding that each situation and relationship has it's own little nuances and ebb and flow, that most definitely has to be considered. We talked in length about advice that had been given to each of us in our past and other's who used the excuse of my friends said I shouldn't worry about x,y,z and go ahead and do a,b,c. The problem with that is...if you've dated someone for a long long time; you've probably heard stories about these friends and start to wonder why your partner is not only seeking their advice but quoting it as gospel. One of my favorites (eye roll please) is when you're partner says he/she never talks or confides in his/her friends about personal relationship issues but, due to their friends' advice, you just got dumped, stood up, left during a stressful time, cheated on, disrespected in other words in some form. While typing this out, I am reminded of a time where I thought - what an unusual set of circumstances in a relationship but then watched someone turn to others who never lived any of it for advice on how to handle it instead of turning to their partner. The outcome wasn't very pretty and when the friend excuse was given in the relationship, it got even uglier. You've heard it...the plea of, "I didn't know what to do and my friends' said to do (fill in here) and I thought okay." This friend excuse runs the spectrum. It could be as simple as skipping a partner's obligatory party to go to the baseball game instead...box seats and all. Or, it could be worse...you're needed at the hospital to hold your partner's hand and your friends tell you that you'd be in the way and he/she will be knocked out anyway. It's better you're there when he/she comes home and needs help - go play golf, tennis, fish...he/she will be there when you're done. Well, there's your out. I always thought in dire situations most people will just know what to do or how to talk about what to do and time has taught me the opposite. Sometimes communication gets in the way and more needs to be said for someone to know your expectations and sometimes the communication is just fine but the want to be somewhere else or to do something else is better left blamed on the friends...
Share your thoughts and stories...
©2009 Savannah Jones
July 24, 2009
Outsiders and their opinions...
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
24 comments:
At first I didn't see how this was different from friends and toxic people but then I rembered a time that I didn't want to go to a party with my boyfriend. The party was his son's graduation party and I am never treated equal. I'm treated like the maid. I clean up and smile, get coats and seen but not heard too much. My friends told me that I didn't need to go because of this treatment and anyway the son isn't nice to me. I went to a girls weekend away. My boyfriend said that it was wrong and I used the friend excuse. I said that my friends agreed it was okay to leave. I see how it's different. The friends were on my side but the excuse was my own actually they gave it to me but I didn't have to use it.
The last part about you learning that communciation would be a good way to not have the friend excuse happen. What does that mean? I communicated to my boyfriend that I wanted him at my parent's anniversary party and he asked if it was important to me. Then he didn't show because he said he took the friends advice and went to the world series. My mom and dad said it was okay but our home team wasn't even playing. He knew I wouldn't understand but still went. Why even bother to ask what I want from him and then blame the friends for why he wasn't there? It's stupid. We broke up and never got back together again.
Oh yes...better left blamed on the friends. i see this is not like the other article where people talk bad about your date so you break up this is where you make your friends look like geniuses after you said you'd never trust them with advice and then blame them for failing in the relationship to show up. My boyfriend is so like this.
I like that you have an understanding of human nature. I have a boyfriend who does this to me and I've gotten used to it being his way of telling me he doesn't have a sense of what's right. Not his friends not knowing but him. It also means he doesn't have a backbone. You often show what you call the "flipside" and the "flipside" to this is that he probably blames everything on me when he's not with his friends or family and that's probably why they hate me.
On vacation and found a card advertising this site in a restroom. Clever idea and great timing. We (my boyfriend and family) are on vacation. We are in Florida with a great beach and lots of women in bikini's. My boyfriend watches them and I know that's normal but it's rude I think. My family is all over me that one day he's going to cheat on me because he's looking like this. He looks them up and down. Any advice on this...
Worse then the friend excuse is that the guy really believes that it's okay to do.
I don't believe that a guy thinks it's okay to do, it's just done. I think most people know that whatever the friend excuse is being used for...probably is their way of saying he/she knows it was a poor choice and to deflect blame and show some form of the behavior being acceptable the friend excuse is introduced.
Savannah Jones
I want to know how long should I stay away from a man I broke up with after dating for four years. He's never going to marry me and continues to make it sound like it but then doesn't do it. I also don't want to marry him anymore because in this little area of time he lied to me about seeing an old girlfriend. He told me there was unfinished business and he had to resolve it. He also said there wasn't any reason to tell me unless something was to come of it. What in the hell ... so if something happened like it didn't in just talking with her behind my back was then a reason to tell a girlfriend of four years. We've had our problems because he wouldn't marry me, I became difficult and hard to control with my life. I started to make my own life without him and if he wanted in then he could be in. I did this before we broke up so I'd have a life when it was over. I didn't really think it would be over like this. Here's the bottom line of why I found this page. After being caught the answer to why do this to me? Was.....he asked his friends and they didn't see anything wrong with him meeting this woman. Please...that is so lame. The guy is 47. He's using the friend thing which is more pathetic than what he did I think. Hey can guys tell me what you think about this. More than one guy. I read some other pages and this is a helpful place right now? Do you have other sites that help with this?
I always ask you to talk to me like Savannah would answer because Savannah is objective and speaks from a place that's uninvolved and unemotional with logic and reason. I usually get the same answer when I ask you personally to answer but I think you have my heart in mind and my sanity so I double check. When people take another's advice it is a compliment but you don't mind if people don't and that bugs me. I don't know how a person can ignore that someone asked for advice and didn't take it. I think you should share that secret. The friend excuse is overated but because no one really buys it...you don't and I know I don't. You ignore it and figure it still speaks of the person and their ways and I flat out call a spade a spade. You call them that in your head -- maybe -- but you do know when a spade is a spade anyway.
J
I"m with J on this even though Who is J? I don't know you either but have an opinion to offer. I don't get asked for advice often but when I'm asked I think it should be taken. I feel like my brain is being picked just to see how I'll react as a test but not real for them. I got asked how to handle an ex passing away for a woman who just started dating this man. The guy and his ex were divorced for 20 years. She had remarried and my friend was close to the kids at this part of it all. I told her to go to the funeral and be there for her boyfriend and kids. She wanted to use the friend excuse but there wasn't a friend out there who thought she should stay away. The ex was remarried, it had been 20 years so what do you think. I was not happy when she didn't take my advice and I have been stewing because she says there's distance between them now that she didn't go to the funeral or the house. Well yes there's distance and she created. Her friends didn't. What do you do now if this happened to you?
I hope this helps other people but instead of the friend excuse I relay a true story about one of my friends and ask my boyfriend how he'd handle it if he was her boyfriend. I learn alot like that. The current issue is going to take a girlfriends daughter to college for the first time. The woman wants him to go and they have been together for two years. The boyfriend thinks this is a time for the parents to go alone and leave all the others at home. My friend thinks it's an excuse to not deal with anyone and get a weekend at home alone. He'd have to get a sitter and it would take arranging but she'd do it for him and even went to parent's weekend for his kids. She had to get sitters and will do the same this year too. I have awhile until my kids are in college but it's nice to know how someone would handle it so they don't give you some excuse later.
do you think these people know better or really think the friends advice is good? I learned the very hard way about a man I was in love with. Hetold me that we would marry. He also told me that there were a couple of things standing in the way and one of the things was being with his family. I wasn't spending time with his kids and I think he knew it wasn't a priority for me. His daughter was graduating and his old girlfriend who was in her life was invited and I wasn't. I took the day off and sat in the back. I got a ticket from a friend's daughter who didn't need all of hers. They never saw me, but I saw her graduate. I also saw all of the family pictures being taken and including the old girlfriend. It wasn't like my boyfriend was affectionate or anything toward the old girl but I wasn't a part of it. I wanted to walk up and say something like a simple congratulations but I didn't want to ruin the day. I just wanted to see her graduate. He made things really hard before the graduation and I think it was to make sure I wasn't included or would want to go. In one of the pictures he noticed me in the background and asked why I was even there. I pulled the friend excuse because I was defensive and thought this wasn't put in the right way. Why was he mad and it's why I pulled the friend thing instead of saying I wanted to be there. I learned really really learned he didn't want me there and he never wanted it with his family. He'd have to find another excuse why he wouldn't marry me.
I'm sorry that I don't have anymore relationship sites. I've never understood what the whole tell about it later IF it's something really means. I agree just the meeting or whatever is something you'd want to know and should have been told ahead of time. I can only imagine if the tables had been turned what a man would do. You asked how long you should stay away from a guy who did this to you and also said he'd marry you but didn't come through. Not only not come through but in some way was disrespectful and dishonest. Out of curiosity...how long do YOU think you should? There comes a time in every situation that seems to repeat itself in some form representing something negative, where a person says enough. You'll know how long when the actions and words of this person become enough. There are friends who like to rally for the underdog and hold out hope for change when apologies are given. Once or twice maybe the person is trying but sometimes you apologizing is great but it doesn't change who the person is and won't change how the situation or issue would be handled in the future. It just is what it is and not that it's bad but just doesn't work for you. Why do you feel you need to see this person anyway? Are you hoping this all works out?
Savannah Jones
Advice person:
Not sure what you're asking. What do you do now that she didn't take your advice? My answer - nothing. That's her choice and I wouldn't say I told you so because I'm not that way and don't see what purpose it serves. I also don't feel that when people ask my advice they have to take it. I look at it like I'm asking for suggestions. I don't ask people what to do looking for an answer to just run with it. I get informed and sometimes each person has a different POV that allows you to see things and have a better foundation to make choices. I also take into consideration that plenty of people have their own reasons for giving the advice they dished out. Sometimes there's a manipulating factor, selfish reason, a control issue, jealous twinge, and more. There are positive reasons for the advice too but I take it all into consideration and figure others are doing the same when asking and maybe that's why I don't care if it's taken or not. Now, to deal with what you originally said about feeling like it's a test...been there. In relationships some people will know exactly what they are going to do but ask to see how you would deal with it only to decide if this is for them or not. I don't really fault these people but there's better ways to have converstions. If you're asking what should the friend do about the idea that her boyfriend is distant from her, well, the friend will have to deal with the consequence of her decisions as well as dealing with her partner choosing to let this be the reason that stands between them. Being there for someone is important in relationships so a discussion might have been a good thing and still could be.
Savannah Jones
World Series Boyfriend person:
I'm not sure at this point what I think will change anything. It sounds like there won't be anyway for him to make this work out. You aren't going to understand it and he can't change that it happened. You asked what do I mean by communication...It sounds like he asked and you communicated it and he still chose differently. I don't know what was really said, but did he know the consequence of the action if taken? That often helps and if still decided... oh well what can I say. I remember in my life a time when having the guy I dated show up to an occasion would have made more to do out of the relationship when it was brand new and take away from the person who the event was for. I didn't want to slight this guy but I also didn't want him to be the focus of the night. He knew the event was coming up and he brought it up before I did. He asked me what my expectations were regarding this night and weekend. I explained my thinking and he agreed. We found a mutual compromise where he was able to be there for me but not take away from the event. He joined in one of the evenings and after the main event. No one's feelings were hurt and everything was discussed rationally. It does make a difference. In some cases people assume everyone knows their part, communication and double checking would be best. That might be too late now for you but in some way if you are standing on principle and this is the first time this has happened, you might want to take the time to talk about it.
Savannah Jones
I am standing on my values with this. I also like what you said before answering me. I feel the people giving me advice have conflicting issues and not my best interest as a priority. My parents think this guy is god's gift or at least their gift. He pays for everything while he's horrible to me. Their parents would never like a man like this. Money doesn't answer problems and sometimes causes more. He's not worth his money in my tears and heartbreak. I don't understand others reasons for just going along. My brother says my parents think it's what I want to hear or I would have gotten rid of him sooner over a lot more than a game. I never told him what would happen if he went to the game because telling someone you're dating that this is where he belongs is stupid enough he should have known where he belonged but chose his friends and a game anyway. Where will he be when I'm sick and the Super Bowl is in our own town? That's what I think about in the wee wee hours and I see it as a totally good thing it's over but like what you said about taking advice and next time explaining the consequence so everyone is on the same page when they let me down.
It doesn't matter if the ex was remarried two times, no times, or was an ex for five years or thirty years. If you are dating someone and you are involved with their kids, this is the kids parent and loved one. They lost this person and anyone who cares about the kids should be there whether they like the person they date enough or not. The divorce rate has soared and blended families coexist and single teens are raising kids. We have to start getting over our own issues and be there for the kids. It's uncomfortable but I even would go to a funeral and go by the house if I was a part of the kids life in the past and had an amicable relationship with the parent I dated in the past. I wouldn't bring my girlfriend along but certainly it would be helpful to any child of any age to have those who care there for them throughout the grieving period. I think you gave your friend the right advice and I don't blame the guy for keeping distance about it. Savannah, I'm taking issue with you-- I can't believe you think there's some wiggle room to talk this over. Do you believe that or am I mistaken?
I read this site weekly and feel like I know you. You are the most consistant in your views and responses. This one seemed out of character. Clarify please.
Above: I said that a discussion would have been a good idea meaning back then. Talking now would be good to clear the air and everyone can get out what they need said. It doesn't mean it will create closeness but the cold distance without breaking up seems a little much unless both people are trying to figure out what they want to do and then talk. This matter is an interesting one to me. I feel there are times when adults need to rise to the occasion for the children's sake and forego any problems they are having within themselves. It can't all be reconciled so simply but there could have been a compromise. A funeral is tough to go to but being there wouldn't have involved a whole lot. Then talking over the roles would have been helpful. I believe in being there for the kids and it was this guys ex but there was at one time a loving relationship that I'm sure he remembers and would like some support with the kids and being there for them. I know that being strong for the kids can take its' toll on the adult if there isn't a support system for the adult to vent their sadness and sorrow for their kids loss.
Savannah Jones
that sounds more consistant and clear with what you have said in the past. I can't imagine what it's like to lose an ex but still have the kids. If I lost my ex I'd feel left all over again and then left to care for my kids all by myself. I'd feel alone even if I had a room full of help and people. Do you think everyone really knows what to do in these rare types of circumstances?
I wrote above your comment.
I'm assuming it's obvious there were good and bad times if the person is an ex. From personal experience, I can say that not everyone always knows what to do or what their place in the situation should be. I do believe that we all have a belief system(even if it's a choice to not have a system) a value system, and a way we like to think we'd handle ourselves in certain situations. I think if people handle themselves according to these measures within, the right choices seem to be made. If there's some question of not being comfortable with who they are and who they need to be or who they are and needing not to be as much...a talk is necessary for clarification and understanding. We heard in one paragraph about a situation. I doubt all of the facts were mentioned or both sides covered and in this case three sides. The man, the woman, the friends.
Savannah Jones
Wow, blaming friends for why a person acts in an inappropriate way. No wonder our dates don't like our friends. We want everyone to get along but then create these situations where we blame our friends for talking us into thinking something is a rational idea when we know damn well it isn't.
So Savannah how do you feel about apologies? What I mean to say is how do you feel an apology is best recognized as genuine?
That's a quirky thing isn't it? Some people are truly sorry for the things they do and the hurt or misdeed done;so much so that it never happens again. Others are sorry they got caught and then sorry for all of the pain that is now being unleashed on them. Some even believe a straightforward apology is all that is necessary and the air is cleared. If you're asking about an apology for one's actions in a relationship clearing the air for a mutual beginning...that's another quirky thing. I think the fool me once statement might apply here. There are so many different little nuances in relationships...taking breaks, not clear on wanting the same things, thought I said I was unhappy thrown out there and well...you can come up with some of your own but when the same act comes with the same excuse more than once after being forgiven...fool me once comes to mind. And, let me say, many need more than once to get it because sometimes you just want to believe the person really is sorry and this time learned. Each apology has it's own set of rules that are as unique as the people involved. I don't feel that just because a person apologizes, that means we go right back where we left off. It also doesn't mean we start over. It might just mean thank you for the apology...now let's go our own separate ways.
Savannah Jones
This weekend my boyfriend got caught cheating on me. He told me that "his friends" told him that I was calling an old boyfriend and that I wanted to get back together with him. His friends he said told him it was okay to do this. I figured out what this really means. It means I know I'm an idiot but I blame the idiots I hang out with for why I did it because there wasn't anyone who thinks like an adult in sight. At first you feel sorry for the guy for being so stupid but then you remember he's not stupid he's just a coward and afraid to take responsibility.
Post a Comment