Don't you wish you could really know the real reason the man or woman you're with became the way he/she is when in a relationship? Someone once told me that the only woman her ex ever cheated on was her. She later found out it happened before her and after her and in some way there was a turning point that created this behavior. Can a man be rejected over and over for who he really is and never trust any loving relationship and in so doing, recreates his spiraling negative situation time and time again? I've also heard that once you've been cheated on you will assume each partner is cheating...I don't believe that to be true 100%. However, what if you are the one doing the cheating? Do you assume everyone is lying to you or cheating on you? Are you creating your own problem with distrust? There are people who swear they'll never marry again...don't you wonder what could have been so devastating for life? Believe me, I'm not naive to such matters, just try mentioning family courts to me, my stomach turns and I can feel my nerves stand on edge. In my case, I'm not having anymore children in this lifetime so I don't have to worry about that part again. A postal worker was telling me he couldn't even remember where he resides sometimes because after sending his alimony checks to the two ex wives, he forgets which house is really considered his...This hasn't stopped him from dating but possibly from marrying. Is there a time in your life that you can look back to that will explain a pivotal moment in your life that changed how your relationships are played out? Have you ever asked your date what they were like before their marriage, separation, compared to now? The answers can be very eye opening. You may find the story isn't a pretty happy one, but it may explain so much as you proceed forward or even may change your mind to think you should start backing out. Try this one...ask yourself if there's something that changed who you are in relationships? One day you might have to answer and just like an interview, a positive spin probably would be helpful.
©2009 Savannah Jones
July 29, 2009
Don't you wish you really knew...
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23 comments:
Just finished reading a study on divorce causing permanent damage in health that can be measured and if divorced and a single parent full time due to death you have a double trouble issue in health and circumstances. It was saying that some who divorced may never remarry and if they do they still don't lose the bad effects in health the divorce caused. Angry married people fair better than happy divorced people. A lot has to do with finances and caretaking of self and kids. There's more stability with finances even in an unhappy marriage. This might be one reason someone doesn't remarry or a turning point in why they are the way they are. I found it startling and also felt sorry for my older divorced friends who have exes that have passed away. That's real responsibility. Social Security can't be gotten until age 60 and that's only if you were married 10 years or more. I understand the family court idea you are talking about. I was in the courts and taken to the cleaners by my ex. It took a year before anyone in my state did something about it. Going into debt and caring for my kids was life changing after a divorce and adjusting to that. I am young enough to still have kids so it is a real fear when a guy asks me if I want to have more kids. I did but if it ends in divorce I see family court and get ill before I've even slept with the guy. Great question to ask a man since men are more quiet about the past.
Some men wear their hearts on their sleeve and that used to be okay but after age 30 it seems childish. I don't have to ask certain men. You hear it when you ask why they are divorced. It's a sadness with regret and most will say they don't know what happened if the wife did it. If they didn't see it coming....then that says they aren't in tune with what's going on and too involved in what they are doing and pleasing or not. I hate this feel sorry for myself attitude but it's really a great way of knowing that if a guy doesn't know what he did or why it happened, he doesn't have good skills talking and listening. What I've learned because I don't want to deal with those people is that as soon as I hear this I get out of the next date or relationship.
I know I ruined my ex husband. I didn't ruin him in a bad way but a spoiled way. I catered to him and his needs. He's used to old fashioned and expects it. Life has changed for him and he had a great gal beside him but he couldn't see it through because she wasn't enough for him. We made many mistakes in our marriage but even though his were piercing it's my mistakes that made him distrust women and act accorddingly. I'm the turning point but he'll never admit it. Not sure he even knows it.
I asked myself the question and didn't like the answer. My turning point was when a woman ditched me to go back to a cheating boyfriend from her past. I shut down when it came to women and the only woman I'd open up for was her. I missed out on happy times and moved literally out of state to get away from running into them. I'm back now and happy. We are close friends and I date a couple of women here and there. Nothing serious but just getting back to the scene. I'm a good guy, a nice guy but not the kind of guy that would put up with what she put up with. I admire her but it makes it hard for others to hold a candle to her when I get to know them.
Savannah,
There's always a needle in a haystack kind of woman that a guy meets and can't put his finger on why he was lucky to meet her or what made her so different. It's also why he doesn't get to be with her anymore to figure it out. A turning point in my life was when I knew I couldn't give my ex what she wanted but wouldn't get divorced. She ended up cheating on me and I felt like a failure who deserved this. Next up, a line of women wanting me because I had a secure job, great cars, and stable house with no kids. After that, a great woman enters my life and I lose a couple of those things but still have her. I questioned that kind of love and stability because of my ex wife. Why would this one love me no matter what and the other one couldn't hold out. I was sure she'd leave to. I eventually shut her out and shouldn't have.
Turning point: Watching a woman you want to be with choose a guy who is a great package on the outside but a lot less to give on the inside. If it happens to you more than once with different women - different guys, you're done, you're ruined, and probably won't change. It ain't all men doing the damage ladies.
Like this venting area today and will follow suit. I asked a guy this one time and he said that his ex ruined him. He said she cheated on him and he never trusted anyone again. Getting close is hard for him and he's secretive because of this. He doesn't like people in his business now.
This is like being really screwed up and you're the only one that knows why and if you tell then your secrets out and everyone tries to fix you. Since I'm anonymous on here my story is this- I was messed up by a girl in college. We planned on getting married and she had ultimatumed me to do it. I proposed just the way she wanted with the ring she wanted on the day she wanted. We were getting married on the day that worked for her to feel at one with the world when she got cold feet. I am a bachelor to this day in my fifites. I'm sure I've met the women, dated the women, but I won't do that again.
I like this because it's like true confession time. Once you can share the story you are almost free of it. Unless you are that guy who has to bare it all in a feel sorry for me way. Those people need a lot of retelling to get all of the pity they look for. My friends tell me to stop being so negative about the sentimental guy. I don't think it's sentimental I think it's attention getting or messed up and not getting over it. We all remember those painful moments and our stomaches still turn but don't ask for me to feel sorry for you when there's no way a man is going to be upset about his wife leaving after five years, ten years and even more. You think the friend excuse is bad people, think about blaming the ex for why you don't have healthy relations. I keep telling my parents there isn't anyone out there anymore who isn't messed with in the head unless I date a 20 year old and become a cougar and support the guy. Then I'll be his moment of change. My parents can't believe that I can't find a single man out there that doesn't have some messed up idea of love, trust, relationships, partnerships,isn't self absorbed,isn't too into his kids, not into his kids, not into me, too into me. It's all just a game after awhile. It's ridiculus and why I'll probably own a lot of cats.
Above:
You have me laughing at this because there's some truth to that cougar idea. I read that men in their late twenties and thirties don't have nearly the expectations of women even their own age as men in their fifties. Even the forties have lightened up according to what I read. The reason given for this easygoing attitude is that the younger men were raised in more relaxed households and possibly more of a chance the parents were divorced. If a hot meal is on the table that's a masterpiece night. Imagine being able to please by heating a frozen dinner and serving it on a real plate. I remember reading one guy's response that said something about a bucket of KFC planned out ahead of time is all he needs to feel loved.
a guy view of turning point for me. I went out with two different women at two different times.
Both women had siblings. One had three other sisters and the other family had two unsuccessful brothers and one divorced sister. Both families didn't like my ways. I am successful, energetic, create chances and opportunity for others, and in each case loved their sister. I am a only child and I'm not used to a lot of interaction but I dated the youngest of each family and what a difference. The youngest was always made out to be nothing but I saw jealousy all over each sibling from each family. I didn't know the parents of one family well but did from the other and the parents didn't seem to have a problem with me. Neither lady ever mentioned a problem with the siblings and both families were filled with love. The jealousy was something an outsider could pick up on. These women had success in their own right but were kept together well. I think my success bothered the brothers and the idea that the sister could be happy and with someone who takes care of himself and life was a problem for the sisters of the families. The women all played it off like it was the first time they heard of this thought. I don't think it is. A turning point for me is when I realized that the families are sitting around talking me down but found out the one woman wasn't and one was. The one that was said I never loved her and just wanted her money. I didn't need anyone's money so I'm lost with that. The one that didn't I no longer stay in touch with she moved. Hearing that these families might have played a role in my relationship is as bad as having friends say she's no good for you. You start to believe it. Savannah, I follow your column on a weekly basis. You wrote in a comment responding to a visitor about people having their own agendas that they aren't aware of sometimes and manage to help jeapordize a relationship. I want to tell these women about their siblings but how do you do that when it's family. I know one of the sisters spent hours trashing her sibling and couldn't have said things more far from the truth. Her friends told on her and thought it was awful that she would say horrible things about a sister who is there. I watched both ladies care about their families, but in one or two cases I didn't see the siblings rise to any occasion regarding the girls I dated. What do you think about this? It really changed me. I realized that it doesn't matter who I am...familiy will be a problem.
Above:
I have to wonder about what you wrote and don't have the other side to answer this fairly. I know there are some families that it would be difficult no matter what you do to become a part of it. I'm a younger sister and some would say that maybe it's due to the age difference and times we were raised that make us all different and also alike in some ways. However, I have a set of twins who are night and day so to say that siblings should all want and need the same things would be incorrect therefore we wouldn't all choose to marry the same type of people. I spend a lot of time with my family and want the person I'm with to integrate into that as well. You never mentioned why you broke up. You feel it's because of family pressure and sound upset because you were trashed talked and one woman who listened then was trashed talked by the same siblings. Sometimes that's just how it goes and sometimes siblings don't rise to occasions and sometimes relationships end and sometimes boyfriend and girlfriends don't rise to the occassion, it also means that you don't have to marry those people. We don't choose our families but we do choose our spouses. People will tend to disappoint if you have such expectations or one could just accept the differences and keep in mind again that such is life. I wish I could hear their side but I guess that won't be possible.
Savannah Jones
My turning point was being told off with a smile. I had a woman tell me that I was everything with a smile and with that same smile told me I wasn't good for her. I don't trust the smile anymore it doesn't mean much to me. My friends tell me she smiles and is sweet i didn't think so when she was yelling.
Savannah,
Have you noticed more men are writing in about women then the other way around? I think more men write their problems in their mind forever and women stay open to change.
Above:
I do notice this but think that women are open and so are men. I have different turning points in my life that made me decide what I will deal with again. If I see a hint of it this time, I'll turn the other way. You pick up on things on the way through of what will work for you and not we just don't always see it right away.
I had a positive turning point in my life what happened to make me so calm was the question asked to me. It was everyone else' impatience. I would watch these women be in a hurry and short tempered. I decided to calm down.
Savannah,
You are a person who is calm headed with a warm heart and I do know you unlike the rest of the commenters. I get your site in a feed and caught this last guys family problem. You're being really nice with that turning point. An only child doesn't have to have trouble fitting in because some only children are so happy to have a family connection. I can't think of one person I know who has the perfect family which might be perfect because of that. A guy that can't be part of a family because of his success may not be his own fault but if he uses that success to hurt others that might be different. I'd like the other side too. I'm an only child, I am widowed, and still have great ties with my in laws because that's who I am and who they are. I know women who tried all they could to get along with their in laws and endured a lot of crap. I don't think it was their fault just the way the in law are and they were being the way they are too. It's life as you said. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. If the sibllings really do go and talk terribly that's awful and maybe the guy should be glad he's out because if they are talking bad about their own sibling then I wonder about their problems and jealousy level.
Thank you for getting my email and deleting my original comment. I started venting and said things I shouldn't about my own family in order to make the gentleman feel better. What I'm trying to say is as a mom of five children of all ages and two that came after a big gap each is different. There's jealousy over weight, over getting attention from men while dating and the other's married. I have a daughter who jet sets with a man she dates. She isn't going to marry again due to alimony. My other daughter is jealous of her life and cuts the man down for being able to give these perks to her sister. He's also helped pay for many of our gifts since my daughters income is low. He made sure she didn't endure the striking fashion of one daughter and the judgemental fashion of the other, a brother who doesn't care what he receives but measures who gets what. I have a daughter in law and I have a son in law. I love them both but I'm sure we do some things differently. Happiness is the ultimate and all we want for our kids. Each child of mine wanted something different from a spouse the last two are different from being raised at a different time. We left them alone more and had more to give all at the same time. They had a life like only children and the other three were together all of the time. I undersstand that man that wrote in. I think families make it tough to date. One child will forgive certain behaviors and another wouldn't but displays the very behavior she criticizes. I've learned nice to all of us in the family isn't always the best man or woman for our kids. Nice is great but it might be deceiving.
I think it's the man who is having issues with families and doesn't know how to be forgiving. You have to be forgiving with families. You also need to see that not everyone is like you or raised like you. In my family I know my sister and brother talk behind my back about me. Those they talk to say it's terrible what they say and can't believe it's a front that they are nice to me when they have to be. I don't care about it. I know that their jealous of me because I'm prettier and live a life on my own terms. I don't let them sway me and I beat to a different drummer. It's what makes me unique. Opportunity happens around me and not to them. I have stories of people's kindness and getting good deals and better positions with me job and the respect of the higher ups. My brother and sister have stories of the I told them approach and how dare them not give me something when referring to the service people of our world. They believe there should always be something given in return for a kind act and if not done for them, why do it. I am true to me and help others. I date and haven't been married yet. My brother hates everyone I date. My sister who is a widow and was at 34 with a five year old to raise and a baby on the way when he died of a long term illness you would think would want to put all of that negative energy to use and fight for the rights of the ill and insurances but she doesn't. she takes her anger out on everyone she sees and who doesn't work things out in her way or satisfaction. I'd rather be me, happy go lucky then bitter and jealous. When the trash talk starts and others listen, keep in mind that it's a listening ear not an agreeing ear. Others usually see through the jealousy and wonder how anyone could be so mean about a sibling that in their eyes is kind. Also keep in mind something that was just told to me when I shared this string with a friend. My friend said, in reality very few people care about what the other person was saying. When others have a real life, they don't care. If a sibling has gone through a rough time and instead of concern, there's trash talk and lack of help, the people listening aren't judging the story they judge the person telling it. So to wind this up for the gentleman, I think families have some thing to do with break ups but so do family values. I know there are three men who didn't like me because of my sister and brother. What can I do about it? Nothing really, If I blamed my siblings, they'd blame the guy for not being more understanding. Everyone has to feel at ease but as we age we are less likely to bring our dates around the family for a long long time. My sister who is a widow dates and no one says anything to her about those men because she's a spark waiting to get lit at every turn. You never know when she'll explode or not find something funny. My dad says we pigeon hole our siblings and kids and can't see them for who they are. It's probably true and then some man comes along and thinks we're great and it pisses off everyone because they would be wrong then.
Can a person mess something up so much with a daughter, son, sibling and ever come back into a family? I put off marrying the woman I lived with up untii last month. She moved out and I think worse is her family. They won't forgive me and she will.
Forget all of this family stuff that's not my turning point in dating. My turning point came when I lived with a man for a year and saw that I was paying for my house and my utilities and cooking meals for his kids, ironing his shirts, taking care of his cats, dogs, fish, and everyone else had a better deal because my kids were grown and out of the house. He didn't take care of anything for me except pay for entertainment which at the end of each evening he got entertained by me. I told him I would leave and I did. He also didn't seem to be upset that I was leaving but didnt' want it over either. I moved out and met other friends at a support group for codependent people. I will never live with a man again without being married or having my things on my end cared for and paid for. I found out he had a housekeeper until I moved in. That burned me up even more. Why not keep the housekeeper and keep me happy and then he'd have been happy. So he was saving money all around and using me is how I felt. I promised to never be used again.
I wish I knew what made the guy I dated a few times break up the dating cycle with me. I found out he still had a thing for his old girlfriend but she wouldn't take him back. I want to know what made him leave her. I don't really care about it because I don't want to date him but I want to know because why do men use other women to get over a gal they can't have because they chose not to have her? He told me it just didn't work and they wanted different things. Then talked to me about what he was looking for. What a creep I mean is he hoping if he tells me I'll find him so madly wonderful I'll want to be those things so I'll turn myself around to do it? He wanted this other woman back and he missed her I could tell. I wondered was there a moment in his past that messed this up with this woman and made him like this on dates. Does any guy have an idea about this?
Okay Okay, my turning point, a woman told me she was into me and wasn't. It's easy isn't it? She wasn't the first woman to do this and there plenty after her. Why tell a man this if you don't mean it. I stopped dating women out for money and job titles. I found they appreciate me for me.
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