Mind boggling at times...break ups can keep one occupied for days, months, years if you can't get unstuck, feel you have no control, or you have to play the last few months over in your head to see where you missed the signs. However, what if you orchestrated the whole ending and no one was the wiser? Watching a movie about relationships and hearing two women talk about how they both broke up with two men but realized they didn't really do the breaking up; the men did all of these things to cause them to WANT to break up. There comes a point in a failing relationship where one or both realize it isn't what he/she wants or it's becoming so frustrating that the only way to get relief is to end it. Although many may feel this way, it might take them months to actually end it. There never is a really good time to tell a person you love that you want out. Holidays seem to come in a steady stream and just when you catch a reprieve, some kind of crisis might happen in one of your lives causing you to change priorities. Many people start grieving for what they lost while still in the relationship. Sometimes a limited perspective is developed and all that can be seen isn't really the reality and the limited perspective is promoting the want to leave. What if you don't want to be the one to say goodbye? There are various reasons for wanting out but not wanting to be the one to end it. I know for me, I'd rather the other person break up with me but it doesn't always work out that way. I want the other person to tell me why it's not working for him and why it needs to be over. That way, I have that to refer to when the curtain call comes knocking. I think in some cases both parties are wanting out around the same time and maybe stop working at the relationship. Other priorities enter and one or both let the relationship slide. We learn the patterns of people and know what makes them tick and what sets off buttons. We also learn that some patterns can be broken and when they are...the partner isn't prepared and is thrown off of his/her game. You know when someone is picking a fight most of the time...when falsely accused, or demeaned by another, you can tell when it might be happening on purpose to push your buttons. Some rebels will actually stay and not take the bait in order to get the other person to break up first. Think about it, have you ever done this? It's usually at that moment that you really get an eye opening moment about the other person who is trying to rattle you. Somehow the picture becomes clear and you both want out. The vantage points of break ups bring about many different angles of what might have been but it definitely brings about the if only's. Some people stay in relationships holding out some mysterious hope because truly they believe destiny brought them together and there has to be some silver lining to all of this. Others leave believing in not wasting time with something that doesn't make them feel good, where their needs aren't being met and so on. But how many have been forced into a corner and in some reverse psychology way were made to be the one who broke up? Check out the movie "He's Just Not That Into You" that movie scene is in there.
©2009 Savannah Jones
April 9, 2009
Who really broke up?
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38 comments:
Savannah,
You got me to think about my last relationship. I am beginning to think she knew all along that she wanted it over but didn't have the time to deal with it, hoped I'd hang on and then we'd work on it or break up. I was recently told that she made her mind up a month before the break up that it was over and never going to reunite again. It would have saved me a month if she had told me. I look back and see the signs like you put it, but how would someone do this differently next time so it's not scripted to the point where I'm the one saying goodbye.
A couple of talks with Savannah on this subject when I was in different relationships. I would tell her my frustrations and she would tell me that it sounds like the personality changes aren't really changes but a girl trying to get me to break up with her. In both cases I was told that I didn't see the signs or the changes and it's over. I did see all of the changes but just didn't see those as signs.
The Professor
Don't give away ALL of the secrets. I have played this many times. I change my reaction to things and that adds frustration to the other person and she breaks up. Usually, I'm like I don't notice you're having an issue, or I'm like who cares you're having an issue and it pisses off the other person.
Great part of the movie a small part but a great part.
Why not use distance as a way of ending it. Stop calling, or seeing the person?
What's a curtain call?
Okay I have never thought about this and now I'm not really happy about a break up that just happend. I was accused of everything and did nothing but no matter what I said I thought my boyfriend was Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde. He convinced himself I did everything he accused me of. I wondered if he believed it. Now I read this and think it was some tactic to make me leave and then he can apologize and come back or make me think he'd still be here if I hadn't sent him off when really he wouldn't be here because he didn't want to be. What do you think Savannah? Any guys can answer this too.
First comment,
I don't have an exact remedy that will work all of the time. Sometimes both people in a relationship try to get the other one to break it off so it's hard to say. If it only happens to you, then as soon as you see the signs or out of the norm behavior, sit the person down and talk with her about the problems. You may still end up being the one saying goodbye but since you're asking me there's really nothing wrong with being the one who does if it's what you want to do. Too often people hide behind the idea that someone gave them no other choice at the time. Really, that's not so. We all have morals and boundaries and we make choices and the choice was to leave, someone might have given you the shove but obviously the thought was there if it really ended. I never go into an argument not thinking what do I want to walk out with intact at that end and what am I willing to lose. Therefore, I do my best not to lose something if I can help it that I wanted to keep.
Savannah Jones
Fifth comment,
Not a very grown up way to treat someone you've been in a relationship with and cared for. Why not just sit the person down and talk with them. Why play the game. Usually calls taper off and time together gets less and less. The desire to please leaves as well. All of these are signs but sometimes the other person is so wrapped up in their own disappointment he/she isn't reading the subtle signs of change and unwillingness to please or play out the patterns. You need to be direct or someone is going to come back and say, "I didn't know it was over, I thought you needed time and space." Right guys...?
Savannah Jones
Curtain Calls,
Oh I love these...(not really)
This is when someone is so sure it's over and (usually someone who struggles with commitment issues does this)once it is, the problems are relieved. The stress goes away and the reflection on the relationship takes place with rose colored glasses and somehow the person who just had to leave, wants back in. If you take the person back, the theory is that the relationship patterns and problems will repeat itself only faster and reach it's end.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
Have you ever done this to a man where you purposely drove him over the edge to break up with you so you wouldn't have to break up with him?
Curious
Curious,
I'm sure we all have our own ways of doing things. I never purposely drove anyone over the edge so he would walk away. I have at times taken the backseat approach as other priorities became front and center and I wouldn't take the bait when thrown out.
Savannah Jones
I like what you've said in all of this. I also like your copyright notice. I have seen some of your stuff elsewhere and thought it was really a cool notice.
I have turned off someone and meant to. I was mad that this person in my life was turning their back on me and so when the guy would get mad, jealous, or I become unavailable or unwilling I became nice or really stupid. I liked the stupid part because you realize how stupid the other person is really acting. I was also falsely accused and wrongly demeaned and locked out of his house where he wouldn't answer the door right after I went and got proof of something from my car when I was being wrongly accused. I also think he knew he was doing this. I'm not sure if he believed his story of accusations or not. I hope not but it seemed so real that I'm not sure.
Do you think it matters who broke up first? I think it makes a big difference if you will get back together or not. This confuses me because if I'm being forced into the break up by being faced with deal breakers that were put there on purpose so I would leave, then did I really break up with him or is that he still broke up with me I didn't know it and then I ended it?
Can you break up with someone who isn't 100% in the relationship? I want to tell this person I see that I can't do it anymore. I know she's off seeing others and having sex with others. When we go to movies I point out the sex scenes and tell her I wish I could do that with her. She walked out of the last movie and told me that when I point out that I want sex and I'm not getting it, it makes her feel worse about things. She told me that she's not the type who feel sorry for others and so she doesn't feel bad for me. She feels bad for herself for having to not be able to commit to someone. This is a lame lame excuse.
When you have a heart of gold it's hard to deal with those who also seem like there's a heart of gold inside but it really is about getting what they want. There's nothing wrong with putting yourself first. I think when a person decides to change the pattern and put him or her self first, he other person says see ya. We all need that time and we need me time. I'm a busy single mom. My ex takes my kids every other weekend and two days during the week. Sometimes I want those nights by myself or I don't want to talk to anyone because now I don't have to. I have time to talk with friends that I can't talk with during the day. My boyfriends in the past thought this is my way of saying goodbye because in the begiining I was really "into them" but then missed my time. I'm so happy when I'm with someone I love but I'm most happy when I get the time I need.
Savannah,
In this site you mentioned waiting for a Palm Pre. Here's a link about the Palm Pre versus an IPhone and G1. The Pre has won in every catagory except Web Applications. In case you were wanting to take a look here's the link. I didn't know what a pre was until you mentioned it on here.
http://gizmodo.com/5126870/in-a-nutshell-palm-pre-vs-iphone-vs-g1
Breaking up is hard to do and now you're saying that we might be backed into a corner to break up and it wasn't even our own design? Can someone tell me how this worked if they did it to someone. I think it happened to me once but can't be sure.
Breaking up over a prenup seemed really dumb until my friend got married one year later after meeting a man. The man put everything in the prenup that made her comfortable and anywhere were the kids were mentioned and taken care of so was she unless she was the reason the marriage disolved. Now this weekend, I've set out on a new path. I'm moving into a condo with my kids, possibly going it alone into debt, but I'll have my dignity that I stood up for myself and my kids. I'm tired of being uugghhh the live in girl and not the wife. I won't sign any prenup because usually they don't protect the woman.
I remember early in my present relationship trying to figure out if the guy I was seeing just liked me or liked liked me. At dinner he once made a comment “ I love salads” so I thought. I wonder if he Likes me like a salad or more than a salad.
I asked him this ridiculous question trying to inch him closer to my solving the mystery. He said I would never compare you to a Salad! So I still had no answer. As time passed and we continued to date I wondered “Does he love me?” so I told him “ I hope you fall in love with me” He of course always had the right evasive answers. He asked “ How do you know that I haven’t?” We didn’t bring this stuff up for months, things still going well. I told him – I think we will get married some day. I don’t remember his answer- I am sure it wasn’t a confirmation. I think I always knew that he loved me but I just needed to hear it. I wonder why it is so hard to express your feelings sometimes even in the most perfect situations.
I was sitting in on a conversation that has my friend and I spooked. Three women in a room who have all been through what I call the gates of hell at the hands of others. One woman lost her husband because they couldn't afford to give him the right care. Another woman was put through the family court system that ended tragically for her kids and also put each of them through pain. Then there's me, I married an alcoholic philanderer and didn't know it who then took all my money. All three of us have kids, all three of us went to work to care for our families. All three of us are well liked by others and our co-workers, we rise above many at work and outside of work. All three of us have been told we smile more than most who've been through less. All three of us recently broke it off with men in our lives. But only one of us thought about why the bad things...she said the closer we are to being a good person the more the devil tries to pull you in. If you are going through hell and your buttons get pushed the devil is hoping to change you and bring you down. All three of us didn't let that happen. We didn't resort to bad tacticts or becoming like those who wouldn't help us or who caused us pain. We came out with our lives in tact and good things happened to all of us helping us after the hardships. Two out of three are not religious and don't believe in the devil or being god like. We thought about those who haven't been through challenges like us and we realized many if not all aren't that nice and not well liked. Their friends come and go and no one is the wiser that they are dealing with people who aren't nice. I think a guy I just broke up with tried to play this on me by always telling me that I was less than he wanted and didn't measure up to a woman he left for me. I wonder who really broke up as this title says. I also wonder if bad things happen to good people because the people are good? What are other's ideas on this?
Had dinner tonight with a woman that I admirer. We got together over a project that I decided we could do together. We crossed paths last week and she stopped to ask me how I was doing? I dated her old boyfriend and then he dated her again. The two aren't together and he tried to get together with me again but it didn't work. I think when people don't work out after really trying saying goodbye is difficult. I'd rather not say it and rather it be said to me. In this situation, the woman and I started talking because she looked so much healthier than I remember when I last saw her. I wasn't nice to this woman in the past and wasn't honest with the man I was with when it came to her. She threw her hands up and told me just to let it all go and forget it. I don't know how it all came about, but she asked if I wanted to grab a cup a coffee and talk about other things. We did and now we are combining our talents and passion about others and working together. We've joked about some of the things that were the same about our relationship but also the endings of it. Why do guys do this? Why get into trouble with the one you love to get out of a relationship?
I hate break ups and I saw the movie. I hated that part that talked about how a guy can make you think it was your idea that the two of you ended. In the movie the two women made fun of it but I don't think it was funny. I don't think a guy should do this.
If this question has to do with the prenups that everyone writes about then who broke up. If a prenup is ridiculous and a person won't sign it and the relationship either ends or no marriage takes place is it the person who walked away standing up for him or herself the one or the person who made sure to make a prenup that had a built in non-signature idea? People put ideas in their papers to make sure no one signs them and then they never have to get married. If you walk away whose idea was it?
Aren't any men going to fess up? I am, I have worked this scene a few times. I've exploded, walked out of apartments, accused falsely, hoping the woman would leave me. It's easier this way until you see that you've set yourself up if you meet anyone who knows the woman. Then you become the one with the temper or jealous, etc.
What would you say if you say the guy you broke up out with a woman? He has every right to be out with someone. It was a clean break. We were together for years but clean out. I waited until his date used the restroom and then I went to the restroom. I never said a word but I wanted to. I wanted to tell her to run but didn't. She looked so happy. Then I got home and phoned my friend. She asked me what I would say. All I can think of is how happy I once was with him. All the bullshit he's telling her and how he probably was making her feel like a queen and then going back to his house like he did with me. Then, I feel like I owe it to the woman to tell her that her heart will be broken like mine. His prior girlfriend before me, warned me and I didn't listen. I wish I had and it would have saved me.
Fun reading, there was an anonymous person who wrote if the person wasn't 100% in the relationship and was screwing around with other people then pretty much you were just the best friend, so in her eyes you weren't really someone to fool with but you were her support.
Why don't men fess up about forcing a breakup cause we either breakup in person or cowardly breakup through the internet, but most guys that i know typically don't want to end the relationship if they get atleast sex out of the relationship.
I didn't really sift through everything so that's all i can comment on
New Yorker visiting the site again. I could follow the article but can't follow some of these comments on who and when. My when was when my daughter went through some bad times. I needed to be there for her and no one else. I liked when people were there to support me to support her. If any were negative or putting it on me, out I sent them. I raise one child by myself. One child is easy compared to the many others raise. Hell for some is different than hell for some others. Losing a parent is hell on a kid. Losing a spouse, losing an ex spouse if kids parent also hell. I lost my ex wife who was hard to deal with but we managed and got along for my daughter. A daughter losing her mom at 14 is unimaginable to me. It goes on but still unimaginable to me. That was my when. I wanted to marry the woman I was seeing and she was a big part of my life but also a big part of my daughters until this when happened. No details I will give but it wasn't going to work out with this when time. We broke up because she wanted me to notice she was unhappy...unhappy? I thought...I knew this wasn't going to work out. I don't regret letting the perfect who leave me at the when of hell. I take care of my daughter who is now 16 and focus on her. I am dating a little but I don't bring anyone near my daughter until I know this is going to be very serious. My daughter doesn't have a female role model. My nieces talk about their times out drinking and hanging at bars with friends. Not appropriate for impressionable ears no matter how old the person talking is. I don't drink around my daughter but one glass of wine while out. Nothing at home while with her and throw out the bottles before she comes home. My when was a wake up call about life. I'm relieved that I got to see the real person in the who. I know she was a good woman but not someone for me in these when times. I wanted someone who would also be there for my daughter like my ex wife was, but it became obvious that the juncture wouldn't happen if something happened to me. I share this story because we all meet and greet people everyday and some of us contribute to the problems and some make it better. Some don't change it at all - fine too. We don't know their background and what they know. I don't mean business/schooling. I've stopped trying to meet someone so much as trying to meet the right who for the whens that I know now can happen. My lesson: listen to the stories, you'll see how much the person was there for someone. If they broke up in the middle of a bad time and it wasn't their bad time listen to that when. Decide for yourself what you think you'll need. Honesty is important. The one sharing and the one listening. Be honest and don't let love blind you like I did.
This so just happened to me. My boyfriend is on vacation with me and is forcing my hand. I got out of the shower and saw him on his laptop emailing his old girlfriend. He thinks if he shows me how innocent these emails are then I'll understand and look foolish that I'm worried. Crazy I know, but I did look and they were really innocent emails and caring. One wished him well with me and promoted my relationship with him. Another one gave him pointers on what not to pull with me and how to control his anger and why he should do that. I'm on a vacation they'd take and staying at the same hotel. I know because the receptionist thought I was the other lady and then said fondly, how nice she was and helpful in setting up the internet and reservations for the man. I don't understand and feel really confused. Why take me on this trip while I'm now in the lobby reading this site and show me these emails but answer them in the first place or even write her back. Why would someone do this if he really wanted a relationship?
All i have to say is he's trying but you have to let him know it's making you feel awkward and be honest about that. I also want you to know it's ok to feel paranoid i personally think it's a set up that he showed you the "innocent nice emails" but it's the trip that's really throwing me in a loop to say why he's doing it sounds like he's trying to reach out to you but it's backfiring horribly. Not my best advice but i'll let savannah give better advice as it's a dilemma out of what i've helped people with
Sorry you're not having a great vacation...that said, I don't have enough info to go by with the emails. Sounds simple to you but really it's not. Did you see the whole page of emails and then see it or did he show you the ones that were clean and not others.
The trip doesn't trip me up at all. Life goes on whether your with the one you love or not. Sometimes the vacation isn't about the two of you but just him getting away and you are the lovely companion that has dinner and evening times with him. If he wants to explore the town in the day, you're there too.
I don't know what type of relationship this is and what type he had with the other woman or why that's over. Not a lot of details but then again, you're typing from inside a lobby while you should be enjoying yourself.
It might be a good time to talk about boundaries and what's acceptable to you in a relationship. You might learn something. You might want to ask him why you are on this vacation together and are you really together.
A little insight might go a long way and then the decision is yours.
If you want to add some details, write back in.
Savannah Jones
I don't think the guy wants a relationship with you you are the filler. I have a filler person and I check all forms of technology when I'm away from the one I really love. When with the one I really love. I turn everything else off.
Savannah,
I'm home from my vacation and happily in my home. Thanks for the advice. I did talk with him about it all and I wasn't given complete access to the emails and told that if I needed them then I had the problem of trust. This isn't the first time that I would think we were getting close and then he'd explode or do something like this. I have said I give up and then he's out the door and it's over until I grovel my way back. I hate all of this. I like him so much and really love him but I can't get over that he does this. My parents told me I'm just his companion and to not move in with him because then I'll be just the housewife without a ring. I want to talk with the other woman. What do you think about this idea?
Well sounds like clear warning signs to me....reason i was confused is why take the liberty of taking your girlfriend to a place special between you and imma use the term another individuals special area together.
Well based off the little i've heard you'd have trust issues because he's withholding info and trying to make his friend look like a saint. Talking to the girl that knows about you can make matters better or worst. My opinion though i curious on savannah's thoughts.
Rather tough topic for me
You don't have a problem with trust. You were trusting and that's not a problem. Some individuals do this to force your hand. They say you have the problem but let's say the tables were turned.... a person like this would also say you couldn't be trusted. If you told him he had the problem when the tables were turned he'd say otherwise because he knows that's not the issue. This isn't a new topic or a foreign one to me for that matter. You know there are all different types of people and at different times these same people choose to do all sorts of things and put up with certain things. Sometimes there are those who take the approach of - "I'm with him now so who cares and I get a nice vacation out of it." It all depends on what you want.
I couldn't even begin to isolate where on my site are all kinds of stories of contacting the other woman. I'm not a big fan of this but let me point something out here. Do you really need to talk with her to be told these are innocent emails (yet, they aren't going to stop), the two of them once had a great thing but couldn't work it out but want to be friends, they loved to travel together and miss doing those things together but hmmm...she had the same type of problems on vacations you had, etc. You already in your heart know all of this. Do you really need her to validate this? My thoughts are to think about what's important to you. What type of relationship are you looking for? If this doesn't fit the bill, you'll know what to do. Also, I'm sure when it's over, he might continue to email you too...then it will all become clear.
Savannah Jones
mine was a complete guess so don't pay attention to me on this one. i learned something yay
Savannah,
I want to know how you knew this. My boyfriend really now ex boyfriend was home last night and I wouldn't normally go over there but the whole thing was bugging me and I wanted a face to face. I drove over and his daughter answered the door and said this is going to be something and then couldn't find her dad. He saw me pull up and out of the other side of the driveway another car was leaving and then he walked in. Unbelievable. I'm 48 and he's 51. Who still plays these games I thought and then I had the answer that as long as I'm in this I'm playing. I showed him your site and then demanded to see all of the emails. He said he deleted them because he wanted a fresh start and then said that's why she was over. He was telling her to stay away. How stupid, because I almost believed that. I sat down to try and see straight and try and believe what he told me. Then I thought to look in the closet. I walked into the bedroom and there were his clothes from what he wore on the plane left all over the room. I looked in his closet and there wasn't any sign of my clothes. He said he cleaned up and then I looked for my picture and it was face down under a book. I guess he didn't have time to put the picture back up since he didn't know I was stopping by. I had a boyfriend who stopped by unannounced all of the time. It made me happy that he'd be in the neighborhood and want to see me and liked when I did that with him, this man didn't do that and I know why/ he wouldn't want anyone catching him and doing it to him. The boudnaries were already set and I didn't see it because he was giving me so much.
Thank you so much for your help. Everyone else was telling me that I was crazy that he's crazy in love with me and wouldn't want anyone else and that those were just emails no big deal. This saved me a lot of time. Now on with getting over him.
Thanks you!
Sounded like a jerk good thing you found out now
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