This is simple...I think...
Is it who you're with that will decide if you want to marry or is it when? We've talked before about timing and the comments became more about the timing than the person. What if the person never brought up marriage or an ultimatum? You continue to date indefinitely without the pressure for more. Will the when come about and this is the person there so it also becomes about the who? Or, is the who making the when happen sooner than later? Are you someone who will break up with the who at the time the when becomes important and the driving force to find a different who? What do you think...who or when and what would you do if the when became important but the who wasn't? What if the who was so important but the when wasn't quite there yet?
©2009 Savannah Jones
April 13, 2009
Is it who or is it when?
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36 comments:
Well everything plays an important factor, in the rare case where everything is right and the two people live comfortable without trying to get their wedding vows. Two things i've seen that either happen they either eventually do get around to it, or if they don't eventually one person will keep pressuring it until eventually one of them gets hurt. Now if there was never an ultimatum I can picture the two living together it just wouldn't necessarily be a completely committed relationship, it would probably be like an elderly couples relationship in which they both are recent widowers and they live together now but have no need to get married as they've experienced it and the namesake of marriage makes no difference ontop of the fact that their individual benefits don't factor in well if they were to get married.
Now what would i do if i was crazed to get married cause my time was running out, well i personally would start getting out more and move out of the state i'm in...and if the who was important and timing wasn't then i'd be patient.
Okies no more commenting anymore reading and my head will burst
This is completely about the when. The who starts to look great when the time is right. I loved my girlfriend from the past. She was a better fit for men than my wife. Timing was bad. That's all that needs to be said.
If a woman never brings up marriage, she wouldn't be a woman worth having. If the time isn't right and she waits for the time to be right, she still may not be the one. Some people want the woman that didn't have to live certain parts of their lives out with them and want people who are ready for the next stage and weren't part of the old. It's like a renewal process. I like new magazines and get them as soon as I purge the old.
Love this love this love this. It's the when! There that puts everyone off the hook for why they weren't picked.
Kaiowolffy - I've been trying to point this out to my live in boyfriend. We aren't really committed if not married. Savannah feels that way too but committment to her seems to be more than I think it is. There's always an out.
To the Out Person,
Here's a news flash - There's always an out even if you're married. Sometimes getting out of a marriage is easier than getting out of a relationship. There could be more things shared between the two in the relationship than in a marriage - including finances, objects, projects, etc.
Savannah Jones
To the person addressing me, you don't have to be married to be committed. Being married is just the ultimate step in our society due to many of our religious values. I used the term committed to illustrate the point that marriage isn't necessary, homosexuals don't have rights to get married in certain areas yet they are committed to eachother being committed is a mindset, you either believe you are and the title beset upon your couple makes no difference or you believe your not and it won't change after you say your I do's.
I do agree with what everyone said timing is key, however there are sometimes were both people just can't commit or neither wants to bring it up cause they are scared to lose the other.
This really goes under who do you love when you come undone. My friend has come undone a time or two. She calls me and confides in me because I know how to deal with her. Someone just upset her greatly regarding a serious issue and it's me she emailed and forward the one sent to her to do a reality check. I've been trying to keep myself involved in this woman's life for various reasons. One I love her but the other more pressing reason is she needs me when she comes undone. I'd never forgive myself if I didn't allow myself to be there for her. Problem- I really do love this woman but she doesn't share the same feelings anymore for me. I don't know how she does this whole tight rope in life and smile. She isn't smiling now and I have a feeling she won't be for awhile. I can only hope that I'm there when she needs me, when she comes undone. Is there any other male out there who has been in this position and is the only one who can connect with a woman who doesn't want anything more intimate anymore? I really am the only one who seems to understand her and understand how to work with her without upsetting her. There's another man she says has been helping her who is going through the same issues. She isn't able to get together with him because of her time constraints.
I married my best friend. I wasn't attracted to his looks but I was attracted to the idea that there was no one else who understood me like him. He was the man I turned to when I came undone. I never met a man and still have not met a man who could "handle" me. He "handled" my moods, my problems, my emotional issues, my post-partum depression, my way of dealing with issues. No one could do that. I fell in love with him for his ability to do this and to allow me to laugh at some of it. That attraction built because he ended up being my savior. We got divorced for health and medical reasons and eventually he passed away. Don't underestimate the power to be the one who is there when she comes undone. You don't have to be someone who has lived the same, just someone who doesn't say I can't imagine and leaves it alone. Be the person who says I can't imagine but here let me help by ---. Don't wait for the woman to tell you how to help. Don't explain how you haven't had this problem. Act like you have and deal with it with the woman. I found it all to work out.
I look at the woman who was the girlfriend before and afer me with the same man. We are so much the same. She was the who and I was the when. He went back to her because she was the who. He wants to marry her he said but found out she no longer wants to marry him because she saw too much of a bad idea of life with him. She was his who but he wasn't hers but might have been a when. I was a rebound situation we (me and the other woman) think to get even with her and make her come back. He wanted her more than anyone and then he blew it.
Is there a man out there that regrets NOT taking the ultimatum and will admit it?
Savannah,
Would you marry a man that was the who even if the when wasn't the best?
Curious One
Curious One, this is an interesting question. Life throws a person a lot of challenging times. However, there is an actual list of major life changing situations statistically known to be the most stressful to deal with and also possible problems for relationships. Job loss, death of a loved one, divorce, moving, a child's chronic illness. Depending on how you see life, experiencing these things with a partner is quite a learning experience. Even if you find that the way someone handles these issues isn't jiving with you, you have learned something that others don't learn until after the wedding and sometimes too late to do something about it. I've lived many challenging times; some of them in my own life and some lived by being in a relationship with someone who the problems effected most directly. You can love someone with all of your heart but if you can't handle issues together and get through life's challenges the who and the when don't matter. If the when presents a challenge but the who is able to work with you and get you through together and stronger- how perfect. If the who can't deal with the when, I don't think that I'd want to marry this person. I think you're asking if the when wasn't quite right but the who was would I marry so what I'm trying to say is...that when is a very telling time. I'd like to see how that when time turns out. I look back at certain times in my life and am thankful for the people who stood by me and who I stood by, but at the same time, those difficult times taught us all a lot of unknowns about each other earlier than later.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
I think the in the olden days or back in the day people married because of the when. People going off to war, wanting to have a kid, wanting to have sex, wanting to increase finances by two people, and more. I'm not sure the who made a difference. Some women married men going off to war and barely knew those men. Times have changed and divorce rates have taught us to really look at the big picture of what we're getting into. We also are faced with problems that I know were probably in the day but handeled differently than we do today. Right or wrong, this is our world and how it works. I'd wait out the when with the who and see what happens.
I like this last anonymous post for bringing out a few issues. You also have to remember that dating isn't what it used to be back in the olden days you would date to get to know someone before marriage nowadays we use media aka internet to get to know someone and have sex before marriage more often than not and alot of people feel pressured into marriage or want to solidify they're relationship by changing the relationship title only to find out later that they didn't live together long enough or there were other issues they weren't aware of or they legitimately got married for the wrong reasons. And i'm being vague this time i wanna start a debate
AS for the big picture, we always looked at it, just i think it was easier back then to look at the bigger picture as the bigger picture for us can change in a heartbeat.
Savannah,
There's a moment in your life that when I picture how it went I become so sad. I also know who was with you at the when time. Some whens are harder than others. I filled in at what I would call a when time in that moment but soon realized I was the who.
For those writing in: I'd walk lightly on this - I know I went through a hellish time and Savannah, well, she and her kids have been through some real hell and as she said recently to me. What do you do as the quote says, you keep going.
In my life the who that stood by me was everything and I was able to give that to another because it was given to me. Unfortunately, it is the when that makes the difference not the who. When I see my old girlfriend, I'm reminded of all we went through. Death of two family members, a childs diagnosis of an illness, and a career change. I have the most memorable happy times with this woman but also a lot of life was lived and not all pretty. I wasn't grown up at the time and probably not grown up now. It really is the when and timing isn't the right word choice as Savannah said in this. Time has been right for me a couple of times the circumstances I think for the others is what matter. I wasn't at my finest during duress and many want someone who can handle situations without falling apart.
Ultimatum persons quetion.
I have been ultimatumed twice and only regret one. The when mattered not the who. I believe faithfully that if you are at an age in your fifties and your kids are off to college and on their own in my case, You will either deal with right then or your parents start needing you and time will slip away. I was ultimatumed in my forties twice and I believe again that the forties isn't the time. We have so many things going on and want to put out the fires with our teens. I was wanting to be a mature person and have what I would have with a wife but not ready for the wife again. I set up house with one lovely woman. She's one that ultimatumed me. I lost her. I regret it but I also built a great life for myself. I'm looking and single and in my fifties (early). I have all the gray hair from raising two teenage boys who are finding their way. It's nice to be able to help another on the3r way but someone my own age in my realm is what I need. The who matters but their when does too.
Well...that comment made me think...
Savannah Jones
What's an Around The Way girl?
An "Around The Way Girl" is a song by LL Cool J.
You must have been listening to XM Radio this morning. It was reported that Chris Brown was dating his old girlfriend from his past and somewhat before he was famous. The around the way meaning back from where he lived. That's the explanation given on the radio this morning. Check out the lyrics.
Savannah Jones
That's what I was listening to but was ordering at the drive thru McD's and missed what it meant. I thought it had to do with rebounds I thought maybe someone heard it.
Thanks
Can you write about emotional unavailability. I think the guy I'm with is saving his emotions for the gal he broke up with. That's who he talks to and still emails.
Can anyone write in about emotional unavailability in case savannah jones doesn't please?
D do you still write in?
Here's a story of a lovely lady- No not the Brady Bunch story but a real lovely woman that I was in love with. I cam around in her life when she was "looking" to meet someone. She was online looking and would only send out emails to the guys she found interesting. She didn't sign up until she saw my picture. She was looking online with a friend for the friend. My picture hadn't really caught her eye but the idea that we had a lot in common made her read on and look. She signed up and we met. I was sent a picture of her and couldn't believe how much better in person because the picture was beautiful. This woman was the who in my life. Now for the when...I didn't intend on there being a good time or bad time to be married because I wasn't and won't remarry. I wasn't ever asked this and after a year of dating was. It was horrible and basically a mess. The woman tried to say she could do without marriage but not do without me. Frustration would set in and the world became a difficult place. I didn't like my job, my friends, her and even myself. I told her this wasn't fair to her and it had to end. Really it wasn't fair to either of us. She pretended it didn't matter but it did. The when mattered and now the who was too. This was 18 months ago. She's recently married and moved into a home as lovely as her I heard. I'm sharing the story for those who want it all but settle for the one they love in a lessor capacity then they want. I wish women would understand that they are beautiful creatures who deserve to have what they wish for and being with a man that doesn't want to be married for whatever reason be it prenup, fears, ex issues whatever is doing the lovely woman a disservice. Say it upfront on the first date if you know you aren't going to marry. Guys don't pull the but I don't know bullshit because we know and always have known.
Here's my two cents on emotional availability.
There are two things to sum up a relationship physical, and the emotional. Not going into the physical since that wasn't asked but the emotional availability pretty much means the person confides in you for their problems and wants to work them out with you as well as expends energy on you.
If a person isn't emotional available the term emotional affair or cheating comes into play, it happens to females alot that their male partner will do this which they male doesn't regard it as cheating...it does happen in rare cases to guys like me. But pretty much when a person isn't emotional available there not really there with you and i guess you could...great lost my train of thought. i= rough day so let me just sum up what i was going to say
Emotional availability is the time spent with one another mentally and obviously an emotional level when it's not there the relationship is as good as dead or it can cause frustration from the partner or feeling of less worth.
AND emotional cheating is still cheating, just as emotional abuse is still abuse
We've known but we keep our hope that we as men aren't hopeless.
Kaiowolffy,
Please keep in mind that you've had one relationship you said in nice guy post.
Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm not asking you what you think emotional unavailablity is, I'm asking men who are emotionally unavailable to write in. I am in my forties, what is your age?
This isn't at all having to do with the emotional unavailability I'm talking about. No offense Kaio but the people on here have been through many many hardships, relationships, and issues that go deeper than the obvious that you stated. We are talking about emotionally cheating either. This is really a whole different subject and covered on Yahoo that really isn't a deep thinking dating site. Read those comments, you'll see that most the people writing in can't stand the unrealistic articles that speak what we already know and give solutions that real people don't go about doing. Don't mean to go off on you but your replies are long and this one was way off.
I will write about emotional unavailability this week. I have covered this on a different site. There are many different ways a person is emotionally unavailable. I understand what you are asking when asking if the man you are with is this way because he can't connect to you while still connected to someone else. That isn't emotionally unavailable as much as a possible connection issue. I know that there are those who "get me" and those who really care about me but have no clue. I lean toward those who get me but sometimes purposely have to turn away from a couple of people who understand me or my life, because it wouldn't be a good idea in general regarding what I want in my future. Purposely shutting yourself off is being emotionally unavailable but just one version of it. I'll write more later. I don't want to cheapen this by bringing in other issues as stated above. I understand the question and at times have had to be this way and experienced being with others who've had to be this way due to special circumstances that don't include others just different. I appreciate you understanding that this site is unlike the typical yahoo and other dating sites that have a one size fits all approach. If you've lived out there long enough divorced, more than a couple deep relationships, you have an apprectiation for what others on here are talking about. Don't be hard on Kaiowolffy he was trying to be helpful. After your first marriage ended your eyes were opened some but years later and many others later, you may have won the wisdom that he's still learning.
Savannah Jones
Savannah and only Savannah,
What do you think about this problem? I fell in love with someone who was married. As soon as this person got a divorce, I no longer am interested. I didn't have an affair with him or get in his life. He didn't even know I cared. Now, he's involved with someone but not married or engaged and I want to tell him how I feel. Is it okay to do this even though he just started dating someone a little more regularly?
want to share feelings
Want to share feelings,
I know that no matter what I suggest, if you feel strongly you'll do as you please. If it was me in this position, I'd keep in mind that the person you have feelings for, is gaining growing feelings for someone else. You didn't mention if he was sending you any signals so I'm assuming no since you said he doesn't know how you feel at all. I don't think I'd disrupt his dating one person. If he's dating around I'd feel differently. If you are one of those that just has to say what you're thinking than you will. I can't dismiss the idea that it also seems that you want him when you feel he's taken. You didn't seem to go after him when he was open after his divorce but waited until he started dating just one person to feel you need to talk to him.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
I posted this to the wrong one. Please put on the who/when.
New Yorker visiting the site again. I could follow the article but can't follow some of these comments on who and when. My when was when my daughter went through some bad times. I needed to be there for her and no one else. I liked when people were there to support me to support her. If any were negative or putting it on me, out I sent them. I raise one child by myself. One child is easy compared to the many others raise. Hell for some is different than hell for some others. Losing a parent is hell on a kid. Losing a spouse, losing an ex spouse if kids parent also hell. I lost my ex wife who was hard to deal with but we managed and got along for my daughter. A daughter losing her mom at 14 is unimaginable to me. It goes on but still unimaginable to me. That was my when. I wanted to marry the woman I was seeing and she was a big part of my life but also a big part of my daughters until this when happened. No details I will give but it wasn't going to work out with this when time. We broke up because she wanted me to notice she was unhappy...unhappy? I thought...I knew this wasn't going to work out. I don't regret letting the perfect who leave me at the when of hell. I take care of my daughter who is now 16 and focus on her. I am dating a little but I don't bring anyone near my daughter until I know this is going to be very serious. My daughter doesn't have a female role model. My nieces talk about their times out drinking and hanging at bars with friends. Not appropriate for impressionable ears no matter how old the person talking is. I don't drink around my daughter but one glass of wine while out. Nothing at home while with her and throw out the bottles before she comes home. My when was a wake up call about life. I'm relieved that I got to see the real person in the who. I know she was a good woman but not someone for me in these when times. I wanted someone who would also be there for my daughter like my ex wife was, but it became obvious that the juncture wouldn't happen if something happened to me. I share this story because we all meet and greet people everyday and some of us contribute to the problems and some make it better. Some don't change it at all - fine too. We don't know their background and what they know. I don't mean business/schooling. I've stopped trying to meet someone so much as trying to meet the right who for the whens that I know now can happen. My lesson: listen to the stories, you'll see how much the person was there for someone. If they broke up in the middle of a bad time and it wasn't their bad time listen to that when. Decide for yourself what you think you'll need. Honesty is important. The one sharing and the one listening. Be honest and don't let love blind you like I did.
You go Savannah on your game!
I was so so connected to a man and all the men I dated told me I had to get over him first. I was over him he just knew how to deal with me and talking to me. Do all of you have some nice clean break with your exes or you haven't been divorced over 7 years yet, or your ex hasn't stayed involved with someone long enough to cause your life hell with schedules. The man I don't date anymore gets my life because he was in my life. Before him someone else got my life because there was a connection. I married the man that was my friend. We had a connection that you don't get anywhere else or so you think at thirty. I'm fifty-four years old and proud that I have survived being single but quit putting the emotional unavailablity issues on someone else. It's there because you can't connect. I'd give up all communication once I connect. I will connect again...it's numbers game. It's not chicken before egg either. I have the ability to connect. I'm a connector by nature and if it happens I won't out of respect keep connecting outside of the relationship but really why not connect with the person that can get you through? Honestly people lets really look at what's being said.
I have no idea who you are since I don't know anyone your age that writes in, but I like what you have to say.
Savannah Jones
Mr. New Yorker,
Thank you for sharing this story. I agree with you and am sorry for you and your daughters loss. I really turned off my hearing and better judgement when a man told me that he was cast off when a woman's ex husband was sent off to work for six months in a different state. He made it sound like she felt she wouldn't have the time for him and he also said it was better for the kids if he wasn't around so much and the mom could take care of the family stability. After dating him and having my own issues with my ex husband who became injured at work and needed to recover I saw the real him. He wasn't around much because I couldn't leave my young kids and be alone with him. I did break up and it was my reason that struck me. I broke up with him because I needed to be with my kids just like the other woman said but it had another reason. He wanted me to himself and I couldn't do it and if I didn't do it, I took a lot of sh-t for it. I think I know why that woman broke up with him and it wasn't about the kids it was about the personality of the man. I'm glad I got to see this and that's what listening means. I need to lose the blinders when a man answers why his relationships are over.
Kaiowolffy,
I like a lot of what you said. I've always believed that there are more than emotional and physical parts to a relationship. There is a space and time factor. I'm an emotionally unavailable person by diagnosis but connect to many and have really deep relationships. I keep a built in out and that's what keeps me unavailable. I believe in soulmates and I believe in metaphysics and the metaphysical. I came to this site because on the old site Savannah would indulge in a side that fits me. I was doing a google search and found her. The quote was a buddhist quote and belief. I believe I can reach out and touch someone who shares a spiritual belief that I share. That's the third aspect and the one that attracts me the most. Physical attraction doesn't get me first. It's the instant karma and aura's that get me to look and feel.
The last anonymous person when you say your diagnosed as emotional unavailable are you referring to being introverted?
karma aura spiritual has to do with the unspoken chemistry which i really want a topic on but i apparently "don't know what i'm talking about"
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