The comments are still going from this last year...What do you think?
Do nice guys finish last or do they win it all?
All through high school and after, I had a lot of great friends that happened to be guys. In high school some of the games the girls would play weren't my style and the boys were just easy to hang out with- the drama element wasn't there. I had a couple of really nice great guy friends but I wouldn't date them. My best friend happened to be a guy. He always told me that no one wants a nice guy. He might have been right back then but not necessarily for life. Many women in the past couple of weeks have told me how they believe what is told to them by men. Their first instinct is to trust and then go from there. They've been hurt and just want a nice guy. I named some nice guys that one woman dated and she said they were boring; unlike the guy who kept her on an emotional rollercoaster. I'm known for being gullible when people tell me stories because I don't listen with a distrusting ear. You'd think with the characters that have been in my life I would question everything but I don't unless you're one who challenged my trust. Sometimes I think I should do it backward but I have a tendency to want the best to be. Last night my friend took out a list of questions I'd given him during a bad break up and he threw them out to me. I was asked if I noticed the people (men) who surround me or check in with me in times of need, sadness, trouble, and the good times too. I was asked if their feelings and intentions have ever waivered depending on the day, situation, their own stress or magnitude of trouble. I was asked if they've been consistent in their feelings for me and concern for me and my kids and put my needs at the top of the list. Hmmmm what was all of this leading to? After all these are my questions for others. I knew this person was trying to get me to pay attention to that which I already knew deep down. Then I was asked if I offered all of those same qualities to others who really weren't consistent in their return. The person asking me this answered that for me and said, "yes, you have and have remained true, consistent and someone that a person can count on. You give your best under any circumstance." Yippee! I passed one test. I know we didn't have a crystal ball in front of us at the time but by asking these questions, (which I had asked myself at various times in the past) I was being guided into talking about the qualities I am looking for in a person. Not what they did for a living, how old their kids are, or even what their interests and hobbies were. I was just supposed to deal with innate inner qualities. Then, I was supposed to add some of the icing like a sense of humor, drive, ambition, stability and security, a want to explore travel, learn new things, etc. From there I was asked, what would I give up to have a nice guy finish first? (I got to add some icing even if it had to be reduced fat icing) My answer...I'd have given up nothing that probably really mattered in the end. Fairytale like I know, but with all of the posts and comments written on here I think some of the nice guys out there need a little spotlight shown on them.
©2009 Savannah Jones
I know the pot is going to get stirred by men today more than the woman and I'm prepared because I already have some of the flipside covered so have fun with this. I know I did and I'm ready to respond.
March 27, 2009
Do nice guys finish last? (comments still going strong)
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125 comments:
Savannah,
I'm surprised at you putting it out there as a challenge. You're on lady. I would have to agree with you that many nice guys are passed over for the suave sophisticated and confident man. Women never see it's a ploy to sweep them off of their feet before they catch on there's nothing there but suave and possibly a lot of money to help the suaveness. I'm fortunate to be able to retire soon at 52. I'm not the suave guy but some call me nice looking. I've never shown a lot of confidence with dating. I'm not shy just not so secure feeling. In business I'm very successful and always finish first. That power is a turn on to many women when they're younger but anyone in the mid forties kind of gets over that. I do think I'll find the one for me but that will be after she's so mistreated that she's messed up.
Bring it on ...
I've been waiting for this to post. I'm a nice guy and I will get the woman for me. I believe in playing honest, fair, caring, and loving. I am very secure and stable and can handle another family added to my financial situation. I believe in sharing that wealth and my time. I feel like I'm writing an ad. I have to believe that women will learn the value in what I have to offer.
Just Me
Savannah,
You gave some pretty great answers yesterday on the previous column and questions.
D
I don't have an argument to put on here except that everyone has a dark side and you don't know what it is. Even a nice guy has a dark side.
Oh Savannah,
I hope they win it all!
Issue number one: Most men start off nice until the first woman ruins them.
Issue number two: Nice guys with money often get taken such as women who swear they are on birth control and I'm talking about 30 to early 40 year old women with kids.No prenup cause you're not married, so you're stuck. See Number one.
Issue number three: If you are the nice guy most women view you as predictible and boring. Not a plus.
Issue number four: Most nice guys can't wait to meet and marry the woman who loves them, that woman usually doesn't seem to know what she wants and keeps one eye roaming.
Take it from there Savannah- I challenge you!
Came in second always
Savannah,
Women habitually date not nice guys. It's just the way of the world.
Most women want the challenge of changing a man. They stay with men who cheat and lie hoping that if he changes he did it for them. Those men can be very nice and very charming but if this is who they are when with you then this is who they are in life.
Nice Guy
Where to begin-
Dealing with the dark side- everyone probably does have a dark side. My question is how dark and in what area? Do they leave their socks on the floor, do they gamble,drink alone too much, do they cheat on you? In other words there's a difference and each woman knows their limits. I can't handle a cheater or someone who lies to be with or bait other women. I also make that clear in the relationship that those are dealbreakers for me. Nice men and women do have a dark side but to what degree and at what cost to you is what makes the difference. A genuinely true nice guys dark side isn't as dark or manipulating as a sheep's in wolves clothing.
Savannah Jones
Bring it on-
I can't argue with some of what you said but I will argue that the woman won't need to be messed up by the time she seeks you out. In fact she might have dusted herself off and found a whole new person inside that still believes in the fairytale. I've been through some tough times and I've met wonderful people in my life. The ones that lost my trust didn't scar me for life, but they have made me look more closely at the guys who are steady tempered, predictible, caring, and who put my needs before their own or right up there with them. They are consistant and loyal regardless of the situation. I don't think I went out thinking, "oh I'm with a bad boy lucky me." But, when the nice guy turned jerk shows his true colors, a woman like me starts to learn the value in a nice guy.
Savannah Jones
Nice guy- I think some women have a way of believing they will be the one that makes this person change. I also believe and have stated before that people will tell you who they are and you just really need to listen carefully. There are times when you are only getting what they want you to know but eventually it will come out. A friend of theirs will share all or a girl knocks on your door and fills you in. The challenge to make them change is going to get old and a waste of time, I've learned long ago it doesn't matter how much someone loves you, it won't stop them from being and acting on the true nature of who they are. So, again, some do like that challenge but hopefully will grow tired of it and find a way to a nice guy.
Savannah Jones
Alrighty onto "Always comes in second." I received phone calls telling me about this post.
Addressing Issue #1-
This may be true but I wouldn't let a man ruin me so why do you let a woman do that to you?
Addressing Issue #2-
First of all, a prenup doesn't protect you from this anyway. If this is your child and you aren't married you still will pay child support. If you are so worried about this why do you trust the woman who says she can't get pregnant. Practice safe sex in a manner in which you have control or get a vasectomy. I know this goes on more than people realize at this age, and I know it really goes on if the man has an abundance of money. I've heard from some men and even a doctor that it's usually the real nice tender hearted women who play this game. Hmmm that's another topic. But, a nice guy can be careful in this area.
Addressing Issue #3-
Predictable sounds great to me and isn't boring it's comforting and something you can trust and count on. Although you are talking to one who has had enough of unpredictable people. However remember there are some nice guys with negative predictable behaviors.
Addressing Issue #4-
I highly doubt that the woman you couldn't wait to meet and marry is the woman with a roving eye. If you're saying you seem to attract women that aren't for you or who happen to be a challenge then you as a nice guy are picking the wrong woman. It isn't the woman's fault.
I think I lived up to that challenge what about you?
Savannah
I dated a really nice guy and let him go because a man that was supposed to be a nice guy that I used to date managed to get me to date him again. I found out the hard way that what looks too good to be true probably is. The nice guy I dated is engaged to be married. I don't know if that means it wasn't meant to be for me or it means I need to learn a valuable lesson about time. I lost out on a nice guy and some other woman has a creep for a guy who she thinks is a nice guy.
Savannah,
I think that nice guys that are really nice guys don't know how to go about dating and getting the woman they want. They wear their heart on their sleeve, get insecure, fumble, don't spend the money on the dates like guys who have to hide behind the money to get the girl, we send a break up letter out of being scared we don't measure up to the bad guy, we don't know how to woo you because we don't have to have smoke and mirrors to hide who we are, yes it sounds like we're boring but it seems that when you've had enough like Savannah mentioned in her answer, then you find us interesting and no longr boring. Women want someone confident, secure, good looking, wealthy or will spend their money on them to make life easier, women want somone who has time for them. I've got friends who can afford to take off work for days and sweep a woman off their feet but in the end they don't keep this up or continue it and a nice guy maintains a relationship not just keep it on life support.
Nice Guy too
I'm a nice guy who met a woman awhile back that stole my heart. I found something out that I never knew before. A beautiful cultured woman who is normal and laid back but knows she's got the power to make a man fall and is plain normal. I'm considered a very good looking man by most women and I was wondering is there something that happens between a man and a woman who knows what it's been like to use their eyes, smile, and pure intelligence and sense of humor to land the opposite sex and keep them interested? I think that was the spark between us. She was unleashed on a dance floor and I can really move. I watched a free and sensual woman just enjoy herself, me and life. Within a few weeks she was gone. I felt like a long one night stand but I know she wanted long term committment. What was up with that and am I one of those nice guys that was taken?
really confused
Savannah,
You can correct me if I'm wrong and my feelings won't be hurt but I think this is a case of physical attraction and mental attraction but not soul attraction. In college and high school I had a powerful draw towards a woman and she had one with me. We were similar creatures. Same thing with the looks and backgrounds and using it to our advantage. I use it today everyday and she's still very aware she has it and can turn it on in an instance but doean't as much. I haven't found that soul connection that allows me to flow into my older years. I don't know that she has either or enough to want to see that the deal is sealed. I think that's what happened to you man. This woman and I were able to be friends, we dated, we danced just like you were describing, and then we'd split. No ties, no promises. If she wasn't dating anyone, we'd meet for lunch, dinner, dancing, when I came in town. The attraction is there and so is the ease of knowing we are the same in many ways that people don't talk about. It has to do with using what you know you have and the power you have and how you use it. When two people are alike in those ways it's a powerful attraction. One of the comments I once said is do you like walking in a room and knowing every eye is on you even the married ones. I got a smile and a wink. She'd never admit she knew all eyes are on her usually when she walks in a room. Her face is remembered in restaurants, ballgames, mini-marts and so on. So is mine and I'm used to it and much more into knowing people are looking and upset if they don't. She's not shallow like I am. We connect intellectually but not soulfully. She's done some freelance work for me and helped decorate my home. We were together all of the time during this. We bacame very close but not the kind that for a lifetime would be soulfully. I think that's why your gal split so quick out of nowhere.
The Dancing Zorba
There used to be 3 guys who would write in "named" D, M, and Joshua. I wanted to know if they thought of themselves as nice guys and what they think about this article? I think everyone has a dark side and I was wondering what there's was.
Girl Friday
Dancing Zorba,
Would you say that was a nice girl with a dark side? And could you explain that dark side and how it works.
Really confused
Really confused,
I don't know if I'd call it a dark side in her but it's a side most people don't know exists in her. She's private about it and goes to clubs to dance that are far away from running into anyone. I know if she's dating someone she'll go dancing if they want but doesn't get very provocative unless the man is getting down. But she's told me about what she does behind closed doors with her boyfriend and I don't think it's dark I think its a loving fun side. Her dark side is knowing what she knows about people. Even those close to her don't really know all of the people she knows and connections she has. She finds out information or meets people linking the past to the present and keeps it secret. She watches you lie to her face and says nothing. That to me may be a dark side for some I think it's a smart side. This doesn't answer your question and I think a woman might be able to better than I.
Dancing Zorba
Haven't written in a while, but as someone who has been described, at times, as a good guy (and at other times terms I can't in good conscience repeat!), I'll add my two bits.
I certainly have been in situations where a woman I was with lost interest and went to, or returned to, a "bad" boy. Was it passion, was I too "boring" in comparison. I never really know. How could someone return to a man that had cheated on her? I don't really know. But men can do the same thing...go after the Ferrari instead of the reliable Camry. It happens...we're human. I realized after my divorce that I had a propensity to be attracted to women who were a little more impulsive, and "exciting" than me. I would later find these traits ti be uncomfortable. I've had to work pretty hard to keep from being impulsive myself and letting this happen again, and I've been pretty successful.
One irritating thing I find is the friends who keep telling me I'm a "good guy" (thanks!), and you just have to find the right girl and she's out there somewhere for you...when I'm not really sure that's what I want. I know they're just trying to cheer me up, but I don't think they know me as well as they think they do...
I digress. Do nice guys finish last. I don't think so, and I certainly hope not. I'm having fun being a dad and raising my children, being with my family. I socialize when I can, maybe I meet the love of my life, maybe I don't. We'll see what the cards hold. I'm happy with my life and don't feel like I'm in last place. If "she" wants the bad boy, she's going to have to look somewhere else...
Paul
Paul,
I like what you wrote but what do guys think is a "bad guy" cheating would be bad but other than that what does one guy think is a bad guy. I think women have a diffent definition.
Gina
Gina
I think a "bad guy" would be one that would engage in one or more of the following behaviors; lying, cheating, stealing, not living up to his commitments, manipulative, abusive. not being a good family man, alcohol or chemical abuse...
Now, before you all write in and say, hey, I know people that have done one or more of these and they're not a bad guy, I'd say;
You're right, there are exceptions to every rule. If some of these behaviors are notable as an exception in a long standing pattern of good behvavior, so be it. But if someone is known for these behaviors, well, let the buyer beware...
I probably define "bad guy" by my own expecations of my own behavior in treating others...
Paul
I don't think anyone on here or even Savannah was saying that if the guy isn't nice than he must be bad. I think it was just about nice guys finishing last compared to someone who isn't as thoughtful but not necessarily bad. My question for all of you is think back in your life or maybe even recently and ask yourself what bad things or not so nice things have you done in your life. Do those things make you a bad guy? I know a man who stood by a woman and yeah he lied but he was good to her too. Does it make him a bad guy or a guy who can't be trusted?
Questions for readers and Paul
Readers,
The opposite of nice is mean the opposite of good is bad. There are nice guys with bad intentions. There are mean guys with good intentions. There are bad guys who mean well at times and there are good guys who do bad things sometimes, etc. My point in the post has to do with Joe Average Nice Guy. Everyone's just got to love their friends who think what a wonderful person you are and, to them you just may be. You might be a wonderful person to your friends but cheat on your wife and they don't know. Maybe you are abusive...getting my point. This wasn't about dating a "bad boy" It's about dating a nice guy and why those nice guys think they just might finish last. I don't know anyone who truly lives by all of the rules. Maybe you speed a little, maybe you took vows and broke them, maybe you made an agreement and didn't follow it. No one is perfect. But, what makes a nice guy different and to some women boring? Once a woman steps off the rollercoaster she's grateful for this nice person. Why do you think that woman might want to get back in line at the ride after meeting a nice guy? Nice guys I'd love to hear your side and not so nice guys too.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
This can also be about what women like and want. I don't want a man with all of this extra money as long as they can take care of me and my kids I'm fine with that. I do like to be treated like a woman. I don't want to be with a man who has to pinch pennies to take me out or who feels the investment in the date is too much since I ordered lobster. Nice boring guys are boring because they don't live a little. They live safe. Spend money on the dinners, take us away on a weekend getaway(only after we've been together a long time otherwise a little weird and untrusting act)do something spontaneous. I had a nice guy who would kiss me hello and wanted me to do it to it was like rote memory not a true happy to see you. He was doing what was nice and he thought expected or would be nice. I thought I'll kiss you when I want not because I have to. People know when someone is going to kiss them or want to. Nice guys are busy wondering what others think and are thinking. They wonder how someone will perceive them. Not so nice guys live life yes on their own terms but at least they live. I left my ex because even though he was nice he just didn't get what the problem was and how his words effected me. I wanted out and left. I love nice guys don't get me wrong but your safe and that's good but come on live a little by spending a little more if you can, not caring what everyone is thinking about you, rid yourself of the Ozzie Harriet life of kisses when you walk through the door. I don't want a bad boy, I want a nice guy who can loosen up and be flexible not because he thinks that's what he should do but because he's comfortable in his own skin and wants to make me feel like a woman not a family and wife. Some women like to be the wife at home during the day and the tiger at night and don't like a boring routine. Try new and fun restaurants, go for walks after, it's not about how's the dinner going is she having fun just be you and if she is great and if she isn't then she's not for you.
Maureen
Savannah,
Thanks for clarifying the nice guy vs. Bad guy because I'm not a bad guy but I'm not always nice either.It seems you get the difference. I was a guy accused of being cheap and thinking that I didn't want to spend my money on dates. I learned quickly and I now take the women I date out to nice dressy places. I hadn't dated in awhile and I was thinking like I did when I was married about my wife who didn't want all of that because she didn't really want much but my money. Women in their forties want to dress up and be treated like a woman probably every weekend. Not just on special occasions. Let me put it like this: Women who like that go for men with money or go for men who can afford that lifestyle. If your first date is a family dining place or one step up...you know this is an occasion man maybe he's nice but exciting...not really. Not every guy like that is a player, a liar, a cheater, or an abuser. Some use their money to get the girl but then they got what they deserve- emptyness and shallowness. I've been dating the same one and only woman for 6 months. I take her out nice every weekend. Sometimes she wants to stay in. I like that too.I helped her with her kids baseball sign up fees, I paid for kids clothes and hers. So what, I'm nice and she needs the help. I don't say if you need something. I just tell her I'm doing it. It's the cost of doing business in one sense but I don't plan on changing that if I marry. Am I a nice guy, I think so, do I sometimes do things not so great- we all do. The money isn't keeping this woman- I am. I'm nice and she can trust me. Trust is the difference between nice and not so nice but it isn't always mean it's self serving sometimes when someone isn't nice regarding trust.
Jonathan
My thoughts are that you *Savannah* just stepped off the rollercoaster and want a "nice guy". So what do you think makes up a nice guy and are you bored by them? You haven't answered the one guy about the woman who gets out and then left him. What do you think from a woman's perspective happened there?
Jim
Do you know you can get your site in a feed?
Nice guys - I hear ya on this. I am a gay man so I get women telling me about their men all of the time. Women do ask it all of the time- why can't I find a nice man who won't lie about women or cheat on me. Why can't I find a nice man who'll treat me like I want to be? You teach people how to treat you at least that's what Oprah said. If you teach people that you can be cheated on and you'll keep coming back you've taught them this. I know that you love the guy and want to believe that he'll never do it again. I think even the guy believes he'll never do it again but once it's done it's easy to do again. Sometimes it's a learned behavior on both parts.
happy
women come back to these men because they were nice men or something nice about them. Why wouldn't you want to believe that your man is truly remorsefully sorry? Yes, you learn that if he keeps doing it after asking for your forgiveness and telling you he needs you and only you then he has a problem and not you. Your problem is to get rid of him. I think all of these people are nice people and it isn't meant to hurt me, it's meant to make them happy. I want someone who thinks of others. instead of worrying if it's okay until their caught. I had so many people tell me how nice my ex was and how great all of the special things he did for me. He made me seem like I was his world while he cheated on me terribly. Was that his "dark side" his deamon to be fought. I really don't know but I couldn't live with it. I know that to this day if I even made a pass at him he'd cheat on his now wife. I'm sure of it.
Jim,
When is the last time you went to an amusement park? There are many different rollercoaster rides. I get motion sickness but can and do like to ride the ones that go up and down, have that anticipated but expected curve and go fast. It seems I can't handle the ones where your feet are left dangling, you're holding on for dear life, you spin round and round and then hit the unforeseen spiral that goes upside down with no control. The first kind are fun, exciting, yet somewhat predictable. I got very sick when I rode one like the second one, it wasn't for me. My stomach also can't handle a relationship when my feet are left dangling, I'm holding on for dear life, I'm spinning round and round trying to see why the story doesn't add up, and watching the sudden spiraling down effect take place with no control to stop it. Jim, I've had my share of not so nice guys and nice guys. One nice guy I dated was predictable, fun, exciting, and I have great memories but it doesn't always work out for other reasons unrelated to kindness. I think everyone has their own definition of nice guy and unfortunately it's usually defined by the man before the next one. If you were cheated on you think a nice guy won't cheat. If you've been lied to, you think a nice guy won't lie, if you couldn't keep up the pace of a trolling club hopper, then nice to you might be a stay at home predictable dinner type person. I think that's why women step back on a roller coaster ride. As for me I rode the Hulk one time in Florida and that was enough for me. I had only seen half of the ride and was told it was only two minutes. I thought I can do two minutes with what I saw. I didn't see the corkscrew which was waiting for me. Sometimes you go back into a relationship because you didn't quite complete the ride and didn't see the spiral that was waiting for you. I'm gathering my thoughts on the other question.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
Our friend is currently single and we made her promise that she will date three different men at the same time to get a feel for what she likes. She has agreed. Now what if one of those nice guys is one of these three men? Isn't he going to not like this? How much does she have to own up to? We read somewhere that you should date three men at a time until you decide. What do you think about this?
the club
That's the thing about roller coasters Savannah. You never really know if the next hill or turn is the last one, and there's smooth sailing coming...or there's just another big twist coming your way. So how do you know when it's time for the ride to end? Is the roller coaster really the ride, or just a means to an end...
Girl Friday...from M
I havn't been on here in over a month...very busy. I can't believe the first post I read is something I would relate to... closely! Yes I would say I was, and am a nice guy, misunderstood...tremendously. And also hurt to the same level...I tried dating again but couldn't think about anyone else so I just waited for the winter duldrums to pass buy. I'm out there dating but very apprehensive, and somewaht leary about putting my heart on the line...again. I kinda liked the dancing Zorba response...kinda full of himself...not a real quality of a nice guy.
I feel women have their checklist of what they look for. Place a necissity on some qualities, and bonuses on others. I think I was missing one of the necessity qualities. I think thats how all nice guys...or any guy gets passed over. Sometimes you just move on...other times it takes six months:( I'm sure it works both ways though. No reason for hard feelings though...the most important thing in life is your kids and as long as I have them I'll be able to deal with anything. Thanks for asking Girl Friday...
Available nice guy M
I'm sitting here talking with a friend, reading the comments and working on the site. I wish I understood what was meant by a roller coaster ride being a means to an end. Since all of life is a roller coaster and my profile says I love the roller coaster of life, I'm confused. I don't plan on my life just ending anytime soon. I may not feel well but I'm not going anywhere. :) Please if you see this elaborate. As far as how do you know when it's time for the ride to end...I think for people who really love someone it seems that sometimes you can't get enough of the ride or you think you won't get sick the next time. You may have even learned when to brace yourself along the ride because you've learned when to pay attention to the signs and noises. You prepared yourself by starting off the ride without going on any others or even having a plan to afterward. You think if you keep going you'll get further and know how to tough out the bumps or even handle if it goes off track. However, previously you've bought many tickets to finsih the ride and you got further and further. Some of it even seemed more predictable and smooth, then right when you think you've been able to ride it out on top- out of nowhere you come upon a corkscrew and the person sitting next to you knew about it all along but didn't tell you. That kind of unknown stops you dead in your tracks even though the ride is still moving. You have to get off for your own sake, sanity, and well being. So the ride ended with you green, sick, tired,leary and saying keep me away from that ride...too many unknown twists and turns. That's when I think you've learned that's not your kind of roller coaster. I hope you'll explain the first part.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
Do you think a nice guy would end up getting caught wishing he hadn't but then take a trip with another woman a couple of weeks later while still talking with me and wanting to see me? just because he lost the first one and can't be alone and has to sweep this one off of her feet to think she's the one? I'm not happy that a man did this and he thinks I don't know but his kids told on him because they don't like the woman. What do you think about this?
I want to add to above that we were engaged to be married when I caught a lot of things. I think sometimes people don't really think of others. His kids aren't very happy that he did this and said this is what he did to their mom only five years ago. You would think a person would learn.
what would be worse than that is if he took the trip you were planning on taking with him. That's what my ex did after we stopped being together. I can't believe you have to ask if that's a nice guy.
I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think what you meant to say is the ride would be better if the person sitting next to you told you what they knew was coming ahead or the real truth about the ride you were on. Nothing worse then experiencing it and getting off and someone else says, "well, I could have told you that I thought you knew but took the ride anyway." I know you can't handle those kind of rides. You can't handle the teacups that spin either but with the teacups you can see it all and know what you're in for. Even the person next to you can't hide that information. That maybe why you just look and walk away from the cups instead of even getting on once. You see it and know your limits. Nothing about the cups is kept hidden.
A friend
To Girl Friday,
You asked me if I think of myself as a "nice guy". I can honestly tell you that I would like to think of myself as a nice guy, but I think a lot of this is dependent on the way that two people in a relationship interact with one another. During my life, the relationships that I have been in are all unique, and consequently, the way I come off, and the way that my significant other would perceive me would be completely different. If you were to speak with my ex about me, I would guess that she would probably describe me as the ultimate bad boy (that is a nice way of putting it, her exact word would probably be "a__-hole, or something much worse".) Yet I know that others that I have had relationships with would certainly describe me as the nice guy, as described in the article. For what it is worth, although I believe that there are some people out there who would describe themselves as bad, I honestly think that most of us don't really think of oursleves that way me.
Joshua
I disagree with the person who said you never know when the twists end or if there's smooth sailing. Ride the rollercoaster enough and you know it isn't going to change.My marriage was like that. You get the same ride each time and you find out you can't do it. You change and adjust like Savannah said, but the ride doesn't and won't accomodate that change because it is what it is and really doesn't want it. It's just the same old ride it was the first, second time and more. I didn't get to complete my ride with someone, it kept stopping for some other ride to get attention and to make repairs. That's ok to me- I will get my time in the sun when that ride is shut down because some of the parts are beyond repair. I don't think there are many twists ahead in my ride. My ride showed me everything at all times and wasn't ever fickle or secretive in how it was handling me. My ride might not have been ready to take me, but after carrying such passengers who jump tracks it might be looking for a loyal customer.
D
I'm a truck driving guy but not the truck driver on here. I just was sent to your site last night by my girlfriend. She loves these metaphors because it's like our relationship. A ride isn't the means to an end. You do have to go through bad things sometimes to get to the good but sometimes that ride is just a circle and it never changes or progresses. My girlfriend says she wants marriage but then won't get down to specifics. When she sent me this I think she was trying to tell me she never will. People our age and I see that would be 30, 40, 50, think it should be easy because our marriages were hard and we're getting older. I don't think marriage is easy but I don't think it has to be as hard as others make it. Monkey wrenches make it hard to fix any problem. If you have a great wrench you are on your way. Some people have a habit of throwing the same monkey wrench at the problem. Thats my life. EVen if there was a woman who could do this, it would still be work. No one likes to work unless you see the fruits of your labor and even then that's scarry to some.
Flatbed Ford
Out of my own strange curiosity- are you going to ask what a nice girl is and if they finish last. Savannah, I'm a firm believer in that nice girls do finish last and that like the book that's titled "Why Men Marry Bitches" that's what men most often do. Not that the term is used in a mean way. Have you read the book? I'd like to see you tackle that topic.
an admirer
Paul,
I met a woman who was a camry on the outside but a ferrari on the inside even mixed with a rolls royce in her. That was the woman for me. One thing she didn't have in her was a Yugo or a Neon. Cute as a button, sweet as pie, smart as can be, funny as a string of comical errors.I switched professions from lawyer to professor of law We worked together in a volunteer capacity but I'm quitting at the end of May. She wouldn't date me last year because we worked together but she was seeing someone on and off. Now, I stand a chance. I make her laugh when she's sad, I believe in her, I've helped her get over a man, and now I want to be that man. I have a new Range Rover along with my second car which is an Acura. She's attracted to the RL not the rover.Not bragging but trying to show people that there's nothing wrong with a woman who knows who she is and what she needs to keep her in that way. It's not money but it is a lifestyle not the rich and famous but in order to live out dreams. She wants the rover on weekends. This is an all round good girl with many facets to her. Can't convince her to go camping or snorkling. It works for me because I miss her when she's gone and can't stop smiling when I'm around her. Problem- I'm confident everywhere else in my life but not with this woman. I'm a nice guy cursed by pleasing others and not really knowing who I am. She tells me in our talks to just be me. I don't know who me is. She also tells me not to have talks about what I want with her it makes her unconfortable. I'm happy being friends but I don't think nice girls finish last she wouldn't have to with me.
Just to clear things up on my roller coaster comment that spurred some reaction...my comment was really more about when do you know to get off the ride. There's always unexpected twists and turns along the way, but sometimes if your patient, you get through the rough waters. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to know when the ride is out of control. Part of life is the ride, right? It's not always smooth sailing. I think I've strayed from the intended topic :)
Part of life is not the ride. Savannah even says it on here. Life IS the ride. There's no end to the ride but you might choose a different one. I like how the end was described by our host. I feel that nice guys in general are so busy playing victim that they don't win. Mean girls play victim and somehow get the guy. Nice girls don't feel as victimized but still lose.
Are any of you nice guys reading the comments on "could this happen to you."? This is what happens when a woman dates a not nice guy. I don't think a person who lies is a bad guy but it depends on the lie. I do think a person who cheats or breaks agreements is a bad guy. He's dangerous with your heart and soul and your mind.
I need some Dramamine!! Too many rollercoasters!
M
M,
That's why you might not be able to handle the rides like the woman you spoke about. I was feeling sorry for you until you said this last comment. I don't feel sorry for someone who can't buck up and take charge of what they want. So, M? what was the quality you think the woman wanted and you were missing?
Suzanne
M,
You never really quite caught on to how this site goes. We are respectful here and your comment is mocking this. Please only supportive or sharing stories comments or advice but not this mocking childish behavior.
visitor
I still haven't seen anyone name what a nice guy is to them or how a nice guy views another nice guy? Savannah, are you going to do one on nice girls? I don't think they finish last. They might not get married soon or first.
VA
M,
I want to know what that one trait was too that you think you didn't have that didn't hit the necessity count. I also want Savannah to write about checklist. Maybe you already did but I can't find it in here.
Look being generous doesn't make you nice being nice doean't make someone be generous. I know a lot of guys with money and money to burn. Some are tight with it and some are generous. It's the men who use their money to trap, manipulate, and own you that aren't nice guys. Some people can't be bought. I know there were times when my friends guy would throw money at her needs to help her but he just couldn't own her. A person isn't supposed to be owned under the guise of the greater good of the couple. She hopes he'll marry one day and maybe soon but she says there's a huge price that gets paid in dignity being lost in order to have the rest. All she really wanted was his love and companionship not his money. He shared the money but with it came lies and sometimes a feeling of abandonment. It was hurtful and rumor mill is buzzing that he's moved on and possible getting married. All we can think of is we're glad it wasn't our friend. We will show her who the nice guys are.
The group
Can someone please tell me is Savannah a hot chick? She seems to have spunk but you know sometimes you talk to great voices on the phone and that voice doesn't match the bod or personality. There's people that know her on here what do you think. I'm thinking she's hot and spunky we can see intelligent on here. I hope she is otherwise how does she know about the dating world.
Nick
What checklist makes up a nice girl? Do nice girls marry nice guys? I was in a bar with my gal pals tonight and we had our iPhones looking at your site. We don't know the personality of everyone in the bar but we are really nice women but one of us seems a little more rough around the edges. She goes for the nice guy. WE seemed to pick up on the not so nice guys. We listened real close to what the guys were saying to each other and believe me those men weren't nice. The one that was only validated why my friend won't catch a nice guy.
Hey Man,
She's a looker, a keeper, and someone who should be writing about why nice girls finish last and that epiphany moment when you know as a nice girl you saw something through and the other person was just pulling your leg or trying to pull your strings and how a nice girl deals with that. You should also write about how nice girls deal with those knocks on the doors and calls from other women wanting the answers and comparing lives too.
Just a thought to throw out there.
Here's the definitive answer to this why girls don't want a nice guy:
Case in point happend last night while out on my fourth date with a man I am attracted to and who would be considered a "nice guy". I'm thinking I want you to reach across the table and kiss me passionately. I'm thinking shock me with passion when you open my door. I'm thinking this isn't a guy I'm going to be comfortable in bed with because he's not adventurous out of the bed. There's no "nice" surprises. He's not confident in himself to put it out there and even if he gets turned down just put it out there what did he have to lose. I've pictured myself having sex with this man on each date and I sometimes like to take control. I would feel like I was violating this "nice" guy. Girls and Savannah am I right? We aren't all looking for that bad boy and I think the difference between bad boy and mean boy aren't what's been listed. mean is well mean and bad is the risk taker but in good ways. I can't see showing up to bed even in a month from now in a garter with a bra and thinking this man is comfortable with this. He probably likes missionary style at all times. You can't picture a nice guy having sex./ Bottom line to this. Men picture nice girls having sex because they picture the surrender of a nice woman to them. Peace has been spoken.
Not about to say my name unless you are going to change to bad boy and want my number.
Checking in before checking out and caught the new addition at the very end.....whoa baby! I cannot wait until Savnnah tackles this one. I think she's right and the surrendering thing well it depends who you're with. According to your definitions I'm a bad boy and not a mean boy. I make women feel sexy and exciting. I think you're on to something. While the woman that I am friends with and have exciting fun impromtu times with likes this...she doesn't have sex with me. I'm the exciting safe guy to her. I wouldn't involve a woman like that in this kind of life. I like being around her sometimes because I can be all of those things but I don't have to deliver in the end. We haven't seen each other in a few years and that's okay too. We haven't even spoken except once when I was in town I asked her to meet for lunch and she said she was involved with someone and it wouldn't be right to have lunch with me. He wouldn't like it. I asked her to ask and she asked me to just understand. I do get it. She's the nice girl who knows how to be fun but also a stable force in ones life. I'm not that way. I'm so with you about this idea Ms. Nice Girl. One night when my friend had a little too much to drink we talked about moments that take your breath away. This woman couldn't stop smiling. It ranged from finding out she was pregnant, losing a pregnancy, having her kids, all the way to the first time she kissed someone that wasn't her husband, but those kisses that came out of nowhere and took her off guard she said she remembers fondly. I can hear her now telling me that some of those kisses not only came from bad boys but possibly mean ones too. Touche I would say but at the time she didn't know they'd turn out mean.
All the power to you girl wanting excitement.
Dancing Zorba
I know one nice guy that might finsish first. My friend might be close to a yes! That poor girl he loves was hit by a runaway train and was stopped dead in her tracks. I don't know maybe it was a runaway rollercoaster that just jumped the track and won't be able to get back on. Keep it up she'll say yes soon who wouldn't at this point.
Savannah,
Can you put this out there as a new question?
How can someone do something that isn't appropriate to the relationship, finds a way to make it right, does it again and somehow thinks that if only the other person had been better, this person wouldn't have done this? Last month at dinner a woman walked past our table and smiled at my fianc'e. We were with my parents making wedding plans. Then the phone vibrated and he excused himself to go to the bathroom. I waited and then excused myself and caught him trying to explain himself to this woman that he was getting around to breaking it off. He didn't have to get around to it-my dad pretty much broke it off for all of us when he saw what was happening. I caught him awhile back lying about something like this and then he came back and asked me to marry him. I thought he knew what he wanted. If you won't put this on the front then I hope that you will answer just what you think not some psycho babble don't worry let's focus on you stuff that I pay to hear. Guys that are nice that are writing in and you know even those that aren't maybe you can help me understand why this happens.
Lost
Paul,
Story you said is interesting to me. I think the girl returned to the guy who cheated because he seemed really sorry. That's what these guys do. Are they sorry they hurt the woman or are they sorry they got caught. I was with a man who told me that when the time was right he was going to tell his girlfriend that he sees me sometimes for lunch and sometimes a quick dinner. Then he told me she knew and that they were having "problems". I found out the woman caught him having "lunch" with me. He hadn't decided at that point if he was going to leave her and getting caught wasn't in the plan. Here's the deal- I now know how this worked with her and found out the only problem in the relationship was either me, some other woman, or him. Maybe all of it. I don't feel right about this and I was lied to in this also. I thought I was working with the truth and he told me she knew. I planned on telling her I was sorry. I found someone who could connect us through my child's school. I told her the story and she made the call. We met and I asked her to bring along texts and emails. I don't feel like a "nice girl" but it wasn't my fault. The guy still wants to see me and in some way without saying too much I sort of have to for other reasons. I don't know what to do I find myself leading this man on while I'm starting to really be involved with another man that I can trust and want a life with. I feel like I ruined this woman's life with this man and didn't know. Can anyone explain this to me and give me advice.
Really I'm nice
Savannah,
You have some catching up to do...
I would like to hear some of your answers and advice to this. Great post for today to.
To really I'm nice...
Not knowing all the details of how things went down with the first, if you were involved with him and you knew that he was involved with someone else, than yes, there's some complicity going on at your end. If you're saying that your relationship was platonic with him and he hid that from the other woman, then that's another issue.
As for the new guy, I have a couple rules that I try to follow (not always successfully). If you don't lie, you don't have to remember what you said. If you feel like you're hiding something, you're probably doing something you don't feel real good about it. I'm a one relationship guy(one date at a guy, really). I have enough problems with one thing at a time... Don't know if that helps, but my 2 cents worth
Paul
I'm Really Nice,
Your story rings so true to a few on here. I would ask myself why I feel I still need to have to deal with this person. If it's work maybe find another job or partner to work with. I know plenty of people who've had to change jobs even careers to rid themselves of a man or in some cases a woman. It's not easy I know but it doesn't have to be done overnight. I would be honest with the new man in your life. If that's who you want to build a life with then you need to build it on trust. Better that you tell him then someone else or he "catches" you. He may even have a way to help you out of the situation you're in or know someone who can. As far as ruining this other woman's life- the fact that she caught you probably did her a favor (at least that's how I see it) and by you talking with her she probably learned you were a victim of not knowing the truth anymore than she did. You aren't the first person he probably did this with and you probably won't be the last.
Savannah Jones
So far the bad not nice men are all liars and cheaters what about the ones with addictions that take you down with them? What about the ones who have a sense of entitilement and think women are here to serve them? It isn't just a liar and a cheater that is bad. We might all be bad if it's based on that. I think that may be what Savannah was saying is that some nice guys lie and cheat but a bad guy or mean guy is the one with entitlement issues and strings attatched to everything, controling, abusive and more.
don't include us all in what you are saying. I think we all tell some lies little white ones maybe but not all of us cheat. Have I told you lately you really look great in those jeans? those kind of white lies.
I can't believe someone is going to actually make a case for not cheating but lying about someone from the opposite sex. I take issue with that. There's all different kinds of cheating. There's all different levels of lying too, but if you have to lie about what you are doing even if it's by omission, you know what you're doing isn't right or in some way is on a level not on the up and up. That's what mainly seems to be discussed here. However, there are other kind of lies that can be hurtful too such as financial stability lies. I would just be careful with the lying about a woman or man is somehow better than having sex behind someone's back.
Savannah Jones
I know you had a great day so this is a topic you feel strongly about? I do too! I am bothered because I'd like to see some statistic about how many times men were lied to about someone from the opposite sex not just having sex with them compared to a woman being lied to in the same way. I think it happens more to women. I know women cheat and to do that you would be required to lie but I just don't think it's as much as men.
Nicole
You're a smart woman Savannah and I've had this discussion with you many times too many to count. You have made me see the other side countless times on this issue by placing me in it and looking at it like someone is doing this to me. I wish I could say it changed my ways but only sometimes I am working on the changes. I know I'm not supposed to say "working on it" around you but that's what it is. It is hard for a leopard to change it's spots but if a leopard loses everything that matters it wants to become something else. I'm getting there. I won't finish first because I'm afraid of marriage. I like the thrill of the hunt and chase what I can't have. Once I get it it's good for six months and then time to go. I'm faithful for that six months and don't talk to others or email in response to any that come my way. Once the six months comes women want more and I want out. I can't give it. I try but I can't. I don't lie like I used to and say Oh one day I want to marry. I tell them I don't want to. Bad news- women take it as a challenge and really try to come on strong to show me with them it will be different. No difference I don't want it but I have worked on not lying about my life, my past, and my relationship with my ex.
Paul,
You say you find yourself falling for the girls that are more impulsive because it seems exciting to you. Good things take time to grow. My friend likes to drink fresh brewed iced tea but knows even after it's made in the ice tea maker and cold right away, it's best to wait and let it sit and chill. It's stronger and richer in flavor and has more kick to it to keep her going through the day. Don't you think we all like that rush of passion but we don't know each other and it covers our flaws and huge huge imperfections that might cause another distress? Do you think you can't find the woman you should be with because you have some timeline in your mind of when the passion should progress? I don't know but asking because my friend and I have learned to take things very very slow and let the attraction and learning process grow, if the guy takes this as we're not interested then we know we aren't going to meet his needs and our needs won't be met either. The guys we jump into bed with are the guys we already know right away we only want a fling with. Right ladies?
Anna
Anna
So many layers here, but I think it really cuts both ways. Right after my divorce, I was much more impulsive. To meet someone who was interested and found me attractive was certainly welcome and appreciated. I did have some very short term flings then. Of course, it does take two to tango, as they say. Chemistry, to me, is a real thing. Sometimes it's there, and the timing is right, and it seems overpowering. It also goes the other way, in times where I've met someone I find very interesting, but they tell me very early on (sometimes on the first date) that they're not "feeling it". Are there times where I haven't been patient enough? Probably. I do need some reassurance, and progression, that tells me that the other person really is interested. But that doesn't have to be sexual in nature, it's really more of an emotional investment to me. It's a "gut" thing. I don't think one way is right or wrong. I think people are different in what I'd call their relationship "temperament". Maybe it's really like the 3bears...this relationship is too fast, this relationship is too slow...ahh, this one is just right.
Paul
Paul and M (where is M)do women tell you they're interested in you and you go with it or do you tell them and they go for it?
Anonymous
I'm going to assume you mean interest in getting to know someone early after meeting them (vs the more carnal nature of the question).
If it's someone who I'm just getting to know, I'm usually the first to express my interest in continuing to develop the relationship, then we go from there (or not!)
Paul
what's with the guys that have to explain everything the minute they get home from the date. You know you get an email or phone call that totally tells you they overthink everything that's said. Do women grow up at faster rates. Be who you are and comfortable so you don't have to overthink because you know who you are and then you won't have to do this to explain. It drives women crazy. Men, think about it, you don't like when women go into detail to explain themselves. If a woman had a great time she doesn't want it disected cause it takes away from it. Savannah you need to cover this. Have you ever had this happen to you? It just takes away from any feelings you might have when someone has to go back and clarify things that were said.
tired of it
Tired of it,
I will cover this at some point soon. So far I have a list of emails telling me what I need to cover. Here's the scary part...I've lived most of it and for the ones I didn't live I really hope I never do.
A short answer would be to say that I don't like this either because it sends a message of self doubt and little confidence. Yes, this is an overthinker and someone confident or okay with who they are wouldn't need to do this. I assume you are talking about the explanations of their thoughts that were expressed the night before. I also don't like when they lay it on thick and want to know where I think this is headed by the second date. I usually won't make it to the third. Sometimes there's that instant karmic connection but as of late I'm not sure I'd put much faith in that karmic connection. (that's just my opinion)
Savannah Jones
Are you going for the slow burn these days Savannah? No instant karma what's up with that idea. I never believed in that much either. Lets take nice guys finish last a little further - I'm a nice guy and a passionate man. I like when things progress rapidly because all I like is the rush but I'm still a nice guy. I will finish last because most girls don't want the rush. They've been burned to easily by that instant attraction or find out later they gave a little too much away before really knowing someone. The people that will rush in usually rush out. I'm that way and most women are too if they rush. women are tricky they rush and stay but are rushing with someone else if they rushed at all.
The professor
Savannah,
I think you should explain women to Paul. Paul does seem like a nice guy but if you're reading between the lines like my friends and I are, we think you could help him. We think he doesn't understand women and if what he wants is a relationship with a woman he needs to understand the problem with the woman showing interest and progression even in a non-sexual way. He's going to be buddies with a lot of women this way. He's busy waiting on a woman to show him she's interested and men usually do that first not the woman. Are we wrong and too young here we're in our thirties. We are those girls from the other article at Starbucks.
Girls from Starbucks,
Paul seems sweet and maybe he needs a shove in the right direction with some umph to him but cut him some slack.
Girls I would cut a lot of people slack but also for anyone not just Paul I'd say that there's a little feel sorry for me in the words. Paul asks the question of how can a woman take a man back who has cheated on her? That's easy Paul there's a real love probably. It's also not fair to say that's what makes a bad boy. My friend took back a man who cheated because he sincerely apologized and tried to make it work. He was a stable force in her life and kept her calm. The cheating some might say could make someone sick but he seems to have made her more calm. some people find a way to make peace with it all or know the cheating isn't getting in the way of their relationship and love.
Answer man and one time cheater
Ok after reading alot of these posts and why people mainly the female bloggers say they don't like nice guys.
Alot of people confuse that being nice outside of the bed means that the guy will not be able to do well in the bed. What people are confusing in confidence which is gained through experience. Alot of nice guys don't have the required experience mainly because girls don't give us the chance sometimes.Now i appreciate what this blog is trying to do.
my question for savanah is well is why is it more likely for a girl to give up a nice guy or as i prefer the term a more romantic caring guy for a fling when they are having a troubled life?
I love this question above me...
First what do you consider a troubled life?
Next, what do you consider a romantic caring guy?
Next, What do you consider a fling?
Here's my take but would love to know your answers on the above. I interpret a troubled life to be one that might have elements out of one's control and somewhat always trying to climb uphill with a lot of wind coming at them. I consider a romantic caring guy to be someone who knows how to romance the woman the way in which she finds romantic and then being there for her in a steady supportive way. I also wouldn't say that a nice romantic caring guy is only a perfect man in all areas. I consider a fling to be a short term attraction. It can be more than physical but mainly a chemistry thing and quite possibly a distraction. So, I hope you're all sitting down because unlike what you'd think I'd say...
I think some women need a distraction from their everyday troubled life. The romantic caring man may be there to support and be kind but sometimes gentle and caring isn't what someone wants. They want someone who cares about them by caring for them the way they need. Their short term needs aren't being met and when in a troubled life some have trouble thinking what they need long term or seeing an end to the trouble to even have an idea of long term.In some cases a troubled life person really needs a stable person but isn't able to give a lot so a great loving man might make her feel bad that she can't give him what he needs when she needs so much. He doesn't do this on purpose in fact, he doesn't do it at all, a nice girl will just feel bad. I hate to say this but a fling for many girls in chaos, is exhilerating and left as just a fling that requires no thought. One thing I've really noticed about really really nice caring men...some aren't great at reading the women or take the signs too far and take them the wrong way. A life filled with turmoil might make a woman moody and a distraction is a change of pace. Also, a nice guy has probably been the shoulder to cry on, the ear that listens, and the constant in a troubled life so if the woman isn't always able to shake herself loose from her problems when she's with nice guy, and Mr. take your mind off things walks in...a non-committed woman might think and indulge. I'm not saying all women, just some might be thinking this.
I hope this helps you in some way. Any women out there who also feel they can explain the varying sides of this please do so. I know some of you have this in a feed so it will update even though it's an old post.
Also, I hope you'll answer your side of the top questions.
Savannah Jones
A fling is typically a no strings attached relationship in which hopefully the two people in question have set the rules they wish there fling to be cause sometimes but not always if there aren't boundaries set people get caught into emotional turmoil.
Your description of a romantic guy is my description except you missed sensitive.
Lastly troubled life could range from as simple as person trying to find themselves to well the economic chaos occuring right now with people losing jobs or being unable to find jobs in short a person who has so many issues that it's become baggage is how i would describe it.
While what you said above is completely true and I agree with it because i am one of those shoulders to cry on i find it counter intuitive for a girl to describe there "want" long term of someone who is emotionally supportive yet run into there "security blanket" the fling.Which i could even insert jerk, bad boy instead of fling to keep on topic. Pardon my grammar so used to typing on instant messenger.
Well...I want to start this over in a front page column again. I thought about your question yesterday while dealing with a distressing situation. I was thinking of the different people past and present in my life and thinking how each would react if I called and shared this news. I became sharply aware that the nice guys in my life would want to pat me on the back, coddle me, hug me, and I'm not a person who would want that. I then thought about a person that was in my life who I would say I couldn't trust in a relationship but I knew would know how to handle me at this time and would have the same questions in his mind that I was contemplating. I came to this conclusion: Nice guys are nice and use their manners respectively. Therefore, they don't break boundaries and wait for openings, invites, and more to say it's okay to intrude or let your real thoughts out. A daring man isn't afraid to jump in and take charge, problem solve with me, hold their emotions back just enough to be productive and forward thinking, and most of all a not so nice guy has broken the rules and isn't afraid to push the boundaries. When life is in such turmoil, having someone who understands that life holds a lot of gray and thinks out of the box, is a plus for most women who also think out of the box and see gray. The turmoil that's out of control needs someone who can relate that life isn't a bowl of cherries and a nice guy likes to see life or make life a bowl of cherries for a woman and it isn't what she's looking for. As far as sex and the nice guy...I agree it's probably true that nice guys don't have as much experience as the bad boy but I don't think that even enters my mind at least not until that was said. I know some women have commented on recent posts that sex with some have been high schoolish but didn't go into details. I just thought I'd add what came to mind yesterday. I didn't call either the good or the bad boy. I just dealt with it as best I could. I thought about calling but also know I need to deal with things on my own again. Feel free to share what you think of my revelations yesterday. :)
Savannah Jones
See i got you thinking now however based of what you said so far nice guys lose in the short term relationships or when someone is emotionally chaotic or just full of baggage just for lack of a better term.
You brought up boundaries being broken the problem with that is was the boundary actually defined and was it a sexual boundary or was the girl in question when talking about her problems to the nice guy whose her shoulder to cry on ever listen to the advice.Need to be a little more specific. Now life is either black or white honestly theres only greys when it comes to truth. See you either happy or somethings bother you black and white analogy. Grey means there's an in between...life typically is black unless you have what you want which majority of he time you don't. So saying that things are "Grey" or murky and what not is nothing new and out of the ordinary. I don't necessarily agree with that statement if you haven't noticed. Lastly you said hold back emotions most of the time nice guys don't tell a girl they like her yet it's automatically assumed he does cause he's listening, but in reality that's just being considerate and i dunno nice
True some people deal with their problems on their own but honestly we are social creatures and use crutches of somesort.
I put the sex comment out there to see what manner of response i'd get, it's true in most cases and alot of people don't have it on their mind but sex is an important part of their relationship especially if the girl has clearly defined herself as sexual vs being religious etc.
So what happened to you? Why are you in question about all of this? I assume you see yourself as the nice guy, I assume a woman whose life has some "baggage" as you say, turned to the not so nice guy for comfort or as I'd put it a little distraction. What really happened?
I believe the gray is the truth you are right on there. There are three sides...each other's and then the middle. But, many times there are only facts and then people's interpretation of them. I've lived part of a life full of word twisters and word manipulators and amazingly I am still surprised how some just have to fulfill their own prophecy no matter what the facts state. We are social creatures but many socialize in just as many different ways as there are people. Being anonymous online is socializing to some through online dating. They never intend to go out they just email and be pen pals. That's just one example, then there are those 800 numbers where you can call 1800babe and reach out to socialize. Not just the norm but actually some feel they've hit their quota for that type of life by doing this. I do believe we are meant to share our lives. I also believe that the path of least resistance seems best but not always doable. Some have to be that anti part to the opposite. In order to recognize a good nice guy you have to date and kiss toads. Otherwise what would you have to compare it to? I'm all about the nice guy winning but the nice guy has got to learn to open up, read the signs when they change, and as a real great friend once shared with me...you have to have sex a few times with someone before it seems like a match...I try to keep those numbers down...I'm not trying for a belt full of notches. If that connection is there it will happen.
So, you say we use crutches. What crutches do you use when your partner is messing with the not so nice person? What mantras get you through? Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't appreciate a nice guy assuming that is your role in this?
Savannah Jones
Savannah knows nice guys lose out in the short term but not the long term. Short term is meant for those flings and long term is saved for the nice guy.
Savannah,
I want to know why we should trust any nice guy who determines that a woman fell for a bad boy. This is only the "nice guys" opinion. Maybe the bad boy thinks he himself is nice and the other guy is a "bad boy". How do we know?
Savannah is saying this on here and didn't last year. She also knows you can have a great caring guy who is romantic adoring of you, make you feel like there's no one else and then he cheats on you. He's wonderful and helpful the more he cheats out of his guilt. If you're a woman in turmoil you probably can only deal with so much so you pick and choose. You choose love over the mess of what's happening. Love comes in many forms and a life in turmoil isn't a life looking for a whole lot of stability, their looking for love and excitement and something to keep their mind of their troubles.
When a life is in 'turmoil' I would think stability is what someone needs and is looking for so why Wolffy person did she go looking for something less?
Ok to first answer the person addressing me actually i was using the only time i've dated as an example and then i elaborated on other key elements that alot of women either forget to add into the equation or subconsciously tend to outweigh without even knowing. Why my ex left me is a mystery it could have been any of the reasons listed and then some, point was she did leave me.
Now as for the whole person being extremely nicer and cheating chances are if they are being nice to you from the beginning which i'm assuming is the case is that the girl in question didn't know the guy was already married or dating someone else. That has nothing to do with the guy being nice or not, that's something else entirely.
Ok i'm not determining that a girl has fallen for a "bad boy". I was simply asking a question that happens more often than not the girl will leave a nice guy for a the other guy. That other guy can be nice to her in closed doors but not in public he can be a to timing douche, a real nice guy is nice think and through and that's where the whole nice guy cons of being boring and such come in play. I haven't brought that up for a reason yet.
As for long term saved for the nice guy, that's not quite how most nice guys look at it nor most girls for that matter.See there's tons of reasons girls date the not-so-nice-guy but one of the reasons is a girl likes the concept of being able to change the guy and they try to do that for atleast one relationship, or they'll enter a fling and then want something more out of it and then are trying for a long term that really never gets off the ground cause all the fling is interested in is sex. That's where a guy like me ends up hearing about how my boyfriend doesn't wanna take the next step etc. I'm sure you've all heard it.
Now to Savannah being as i spoke already about how i fit in i'll go to your toad comment...I'd rather a food analogy really the way i see it is guys try to sample a bit everything to find out what they like (note: most nice guys aren't in a position to do this), while girls will just start out with a meal, but when their done with the the meal they are full and can't move on to desert (meal being other guy, desert being nice guy). Now the typical nice guy i'd say gets lucky every so often to get an actually long term relationship that doesn't fall flat on it's face. But on average in the dating world if i were to continue with this analogy nice guys would receive the crumbs or the leftovers. Now back to your toad, the trial and error system only works if you learn from it alot of females don't or get dupped into thinking the person they are with are nice which in turn makes them hate nice guys cause they think that he's masquerading.I'm not really covering the sex at this point i'm just trying to point out different facts that people often ignore and then say it's a "chemistry" issue when usually it's a communication issue as some girls either don't know how to ask there partner they like something or tend to not be able to show it if they are unable to speak, which is simply a communication issue that's one side neglects to communicate as such the nice guy with his inexperience can't really do anything. It would be another instance if the girl was giving signals and such.Example of a crutch would be something someone uses to journal with our release their problems. In my particular case well not much i could do about it i got left for a guy that hits on anything with 2 legs, and am still recovering from my first relationship ending that way. No mantra really i just know i did all the right things i just came at the wrong time of her life. I don't want to be with her but as i said she was my first and i would have rather it ended in a more respectable terms where we were atleast passing acquaintances versus this angst and contempt we hold.
All well said above but on some we'll just have to agree to disagree.
This chisle is usually used on the first husband and wife (men do it too) One would hope that the marriage ending in divorce would teach someone that you can't change people you can only change your response and such to them. Not all learn quickly.
Not all women really don't want the nice guy in the end. Look, I wouldn't catagorize anything or anyone in an absolute regarding relationships. I once took a test that put my answers as equal to only 9% of women my age and background. I was told it was a good thing because my answers were of a positive nature with positive experiences and outcomes. That's not looking good for 91% of the women. I was told I was different, a diamond in the rough, needle in haystack and then went on to date someone who told me that over and over. I was of course considered blessed and lucky. I have since come to the conclusion that I scored this way because my experiences in my life with men and other things, don't happen to as many women to such a degree who hold an equal life, background, and whatever other statistics this test was equating. It was only a test I tell myself. I know many nice guys who know how to have fun, be a little daring at times although not much but are a little to quick to lend themselves and sometimes some women eat that up and other times women want to earn that. I look at each situation as stepping stones. I'll either continue on and upward with this one person and within the relationship are stepping stones or, the person and what I learned is another stepping stone to what's next.
Pouncing on anything with two legs - know the type and friends with one like that. Why does he do it. Well, he's a man, doesn't want a wife, has needs. Why does a woman do this? Sometimes some women continue to seek out what's wrong trying to fulfill something else in life or actually, maybe to avoid it. Not all women now, just some. In my case, I'm tired of the rollercoaster and the merry go round. I'm looking for a nice bench where maybe the scenery, problems, life may change around me but the person sitting next to me is as steady and true as the bench. I hope it has a sense of humor and paints itself different colors sometimes but still stay basically the same simple bench.
Question:
She left...why the angst and contempt? On her part or yours? Things happen and learning to deal with them is important. Finding a place for the anger is good, because it will eat you up and your life will not move on. People do what they do but it isn't always to be purposely to hurt another. Often that part is overlooked, for the sake of an individuals own needs. That doesn't make that person the perfect partner at times but each person has their own definition of that.
Savannah Jones
Few i finally don't have to do a long winded response.
Yes i think everything should be taken as a stepping stone. I also think nice guys can succeed and not finish last it's just a matter of how that particular guy puts it into perspective.
Well without divulging into great detail after our second break up over the same guy she pretty much preceded to say i was an asshole because i wanted closure for the breakup you know like if i had done something wrong to learn from the experience or try to fix it in my next relationship instead she just bitched me out like an asshole..and any subsequent time she tried reaching out to me regardless of my demeanor i'd be bitched out at. I can only assume that it's cause part of her regrets us splitting up, or that she wanted to forcibly kick me out of her life. The truth only she will know what's your opinion on it. So i'm not angry i'm actually relieved since we were trying to move in together had that happened after we moved in or gotten any further along i would be emotionally wreck right now while i'm not over her completely but i'm doing much better than i was and talking about it without getting emotional.
The pros of a nice guy i think are great maybe i'm a little biased but i want to see if anyone in the blog will point out our pros more so than your statement earlier of your definition of the romantic nice guy.
Rollercoaster analogy is great by the way.
Tired of rollercoaster AND the merry go round what the hell happened to you Savannah?
I love this analogy though of a bench it is the most original and unique phrase of words put together that I've seen in a long time.
Everyone always says they hate or love the rollercoaster. I remember when this site got started a couple of years ago and you said you loved the rollercoaster of life that's why I'm wondering what happened since then.
The person who keeps writing in seems like a nice person but the words aren't keeping a steady flow and I really want to understand what's being said. I think I get it...
Nice guys are great and misunderstood. I think Savannah said it best when she explained that they can be a lot of the same things as a bad boy but lack the awareness to comprehend signals. I had a nice guy who wouldn't stop kissing me. My signal was trying to pull away but it was a simple set of kisses (nice) but I didn't want them. He thought he was being nice and giving me what I wanted. I also think Savannah's right when she says women want to earn the level of nice that some men through out because it's who they are. Keep in mind you are agreeing that women choose the bad boy so they've been mistreated and don't think they deserve the nice guy's nicety. They want to earn it. Like trust and everything else. Nice guys aren't challenges and people need a challenge. All relationship sites mention to keep the mystery and the chase going. Nice guys wear their hearts on their sleeve and it's no challenge to know where they stand. Keep us guessing a little at least.
Nice guys...are there really any left?
If your talking to me i'm trying to answer everything people keep asking me and my train of thought is jarbled so i'm sorry.
The whole mystery and challenge thing is on the females side and it's another aspect that's assumed. Some nice guys like me tend to be weary on who we let in our lives as it's way to protect ourselves without getting hurt, so there's already a challenge in that in my case, and then there's a challenge of getting to know eachother. Now there's a difference if a person is being nice and feels that's what he should do versus being nice because it's who you are, and that's where the division of nice guys goes. There are real nice guys that are just nice and think about their own feelings as well aka nice to themselves like me, and then there's the "nice guy" whose nice cause his religion says he should act that way or he feels like that is how he should act and of course this person usually neglects their own feelings. Oh and some guys don't do subtly signals it's why you have to be mean and tell us to either stop or realize that your not verbalizing enough, some signals are plain obvious like pulling away the guy that you claimed was nice was not so nice as he wasn't considering your actions into account but he was an upstanding guy.Though that might just be your example.
Yes nice guys exist problem is every website tells nice guys to be a jerk or asshole in the beginning cause that brings in mystery and excitement and then be yourself as time progresses. Also there's varying kinds of nice guys.
I list the ones i that i know of some of you will agree hopefully.
Romantic one which was described above.
Nice guy that is nice but doesn't do it forcibly does it because it's their personality and they also consider themselves.
Nice guy that does it to compensate for something else.
Nice guy that is nice in the beginning and turns out to be a jerk
Nice guy who is only nice in public but in closed doors is a jerk.
I can list on and on but i don't wanna have to list them, but we do exist we just have a hard time in life as we get less and less acceptance from our peers or even on blogs dedicated to us.
I can't keep up with all of the comments and am a newbie. Found you on newscientist. What does kaiowolffy stand for?
Nice guys get pissed that their talents and kindness are overlooked. Savannah when are you going to let this guy in on the flipside for women?
You mentioned it on here while I looked at your site tonight but I can't find it now. You know the bitch type stories.
Quickly I will touch on this: as I have a puppy who appeared so sweet and nice and oh so cute...now he's so demanding and we need to cater to his schedule...so I'll be back later....just having a little fun.
The flipside for women goes like this...
I often have wondered and have heard it said from many women out there that the man they had and were so nice to and loving and sensitive and just plain wonderful to, left them for a bitch. The consensus was also there by some of the men dating those women. It was said a few times by men that sometimes the women are just so nice and always there that it makes them feel they don't and can't measure up and wouldn't really want to. They break up and feel better not being so great to a bitch but because she's so witchy the guy appears to be the gem. Sometimes it just boils down to both men and women don't know a good thing when they have it and walks on the wild side for some become too hard to resist. I wish they could resist but they just say they don't know what happened, it just happened. Hmmmm...
Savannah Jones
Kaiowolffy is just a combination of two of my nicknames
No disagreements here Savannah and thanks for letting me talk on your blog
A little add on about the other side of this for women. There are books out there titled "why men love bitches" and "date like a man". So basically even when it comes to men, the nice girl doesn't win. Which is why I'm still sitting at home boyfriendless and not married.
Kaiowolffy,
You are welcome anytime here. I love the debate.
Savannah Jones
Savannah,
Do you think not nice guys know they aren't nice? I know a man who treated me with a lot of respect and kindness. He was always always there for me but then when I really needed him he was gone. I wonder if that's a nice guy or what kind of a guy would another guy call him? Any guy please write in.
Could a nice guy cheat?
I know many nice guys who do not so nice things and many nice women who aren't so nice. I also know bad boys who have nice qualities and the same with women. I think there are some great people out there but I wonder if the intentions are really the right ones.
I'm in therapy over a great nice guy who deserted me when I needed him the most. I don't think he's so nice anymore. My counselor tells me that I need to remember the good things and focus on those. I want to remember the bad things so I never go back. I don't want to end up with him again. It will just go round and round. I was with him for four years and found out he lied about contact with others, cheated on me even though he wouldn't consider it cheating, he still lies to the new women about me and my part in his life. Having seen the wonderful parts of him and then being treated like a throw away disposable item, I'm confused and don't know what to think. There's times I want him back and times I hate him. He acts like he'd have a fling with me but I don't want to get hurt.
Love the back and forth between Savannah and Kaiowolf guy. Finally a challenge put out there and both got along great and share a love for using the mind. There wasn't any mudslinging and everyone was respectful and caring. Now if only two nice people like them would realize that a conversation like that can happen and add sizzle in life too maybe there wouldn't be break ups for bad boys.
Connect with me is what keeps me from straying. If I don't connect I become the bad boy while still being the nice guy.
Savannah,
I have my own ideas of what is a nice man. I also believe that nice men have sides that would be better off not often shown. Another belief I hold is one I learned along the journey. There might come a time in life where you don't mean to hurt someone but on the surface it may seem like you have and it might take years before that person sees it as a blessing. I moved to get some peace of mind and focus. I essentially took a hiatus from life and met a lovely woman who was my meantime but I'd have turned her into my lifetime if I hadn't seen an opening back home with someone who left me behind months before. The woman needed me I thought back home. I came home and was wrong. I found out she needed herself and time alone. I said goodbye to the meantime woman and it hurt me to do so and it hurt her to see me leave for something that may never be. I hope in time this woman will understand I did her a favor as I now understand the favor given to me many months ago. I'm great friends with this woman and very much a part of her meantime/lifetime. We are bonding like never before and I'm learning the difference between getting to know her and really being let in. I see why this wasn't for her in the past and also why she had to let me out of her life completely to find out if another man was for her or more of the issue was if she was for him. Life holds many mysteries and I'm by her side completely and when she needs. Is it always when I need? Not at all but everyday she leans more and more on me. I give her freedom to be herself but also was intrumental in getting her out of the life she despised and into a life that's more workable for her. It allows her to be herself and gives her time to get her life in order. I don't think a nice guy or bad guy came between us. I don't think another man is to blame for how or what a woman chooses to do. This is a woman with the deepest heart and she needed to follow it to be steady with her mind and personality. I wasn't deeply embedded in her life back then like I'm allowing myself to be now. I don't know where the journey will take us but I'm making free will choices when fate puts life in front of me to choose. Good luck to you Kaiowolffy and it's hard when you've been hurt but sometimes people are doing you a favor and this woman might be doing that or the bad boy she's with might be a gift.
Not a newbie but here from beginning.
This is right on about nice women vs. bitchy women and the men do it to us too like men think nice women who have left them for bad men have done to them.
I'm gone for a day and missed so much. I dunno if it's ok for me to say my opinion on everything but i will anyways hopefully i won't get slandered.
i'll first address the nice girl vs nice guy thing and why it's typically not compared. Typically when people say "nice guy" they are referring to a shy insecure person who acts nice to others. Most of these traits aren't necessarily cons for a female due to the fact that they typically don't have to initiate the conversation. And huge factor asides from personality is looks but i'm not going to get into that. Overall a nice female will have it easier, or a homosexual guy will have it easier as the issue isn't as apparent as it is for a heterosexual male. I'm not debating this fact i'm just stating it, i also agree with what's said but how often does it happen to females?
A person can never really say what their personality is, i only say i'm nice based on my actions and because people keep telling me i am so i guess i am.Likewise the "bad boy" in their mind might think they are nice.
As for one of the anonymous number 1 if the guy left then maybe he was tired of hearing you rant or became to busy your not really stating much about your issue sides that he left when you felt you needed him most.
Anonymous number 2 this is my opinion but a nice guy isn't a nice guy if he cheats. However a person with nice personality trait can and may cheat on someone their with if they aren't really interested in them and if the opportunity presents itself. it's sorta like if hypothetically you could get away with taking a 100 dollar bill on the floor and no one owns it.Hopefully someone understands what i'm getting at.
A nice girl can be nice in public and bad in bed....a nice guy can only think of themselves or be a bashful when he has to not the most common but they exist
Yeah if the guy cheated on you and left you after 4 years chances are something fell apart in the relationship or he wasn't really nice at all and just got what he wanted out of it. Don't know your circumstances exactly and good for you for taking counseling i wish i had done that.
The person addressing me about my ex, it wasn't a blessing the only blessing from it is we didn't move in together nor did i propose to her where it would of hurt me more. The guy was nothing more than a fling and the only thing or reasoning i see behind it was it was the only thing she could control in her life. That's my opinion on that however in my original posting is i tried wording it to relate to most nice guys scenarios when they do date and problems that can occur.
And thanks for everyone enjoying what i have to say. I enjoy debating specially when it's stuff close to home.
I can't believe this but I read an article about bad boy genes in a psychology mag. Women seek bad boy genes. The swagger was what it said. Savannah what do you think?
The Swagger? If a guy walks in a room like George Jefferson...I don't think so, John Wayne - maybe. I don't think I'm paying attention to that as much as just plain walking with confidence. I know the article and I agree with some or most of it. Women like men who appear to come in and show bravado. They also hope that hard to pin down guy will be a family man one day. Who doesn't get attracted to a beautiful person and think hmmm I wouldn't mind...? In high school my friends had a joke that you could line up my boyfriends and they had blue eyes and blonde hair and looked related to one another. I laughed because two of them ended up in calenders and as an adult my fun time ended up in a calender too. That's what they were...fun. I think the magazine article was speaking more to the looks catagory then bad boy image but I have to say some bad boys lack confidence but walk like they have it all.
When dealing with teens I noticed that some of the really bright smart girls had pictures of the school bad boy hanging in their lockers or on their binders. I didn't think of it as wanting to change these boys as much as I saw these young teens try and nurture these boys and then hope that nurturing concept would change them. I also felt if it worked, there was a sense of fulfillment, reward, and in some way credit was do so the girls felt the men wouldn't leave them. Let that simmer in your minds because I still know women like that. So many will say that in a grown up case like that - "How could the guy do that to her, she gave so much and did so much for the guy, how dare him do this to her." It is my belief that while doing good for others is a great trait to have one also has to keep in mind that not everyone sees it as something he/she asked for and therefore might tell themself that he/she doesn't need to be indebted. I also have to say that no one wants to be miserable so if someone did such wonderful things for you and you are still not happy, then if you worked on it and it doesn't work out there's nothing wrong with cutting your losses and say you tried. It doesn't make it a bad thing completely.
Savannah Jones
....I have to type everything all over again...i mispelled my login name by a letter hopefully it's roughly what i said earlier
Okies as i recall there are tons of articles that say that women look for the "bad boy genes" to pass on...those same articles also say that females do it when they get married and settle down as animals and such do it too.Well those articles don't tend to mention that the genes of abusive which is the extreme of the "bad boy/asshole" which are genes a lot of people wish to not continue in are gene pool still exist and they are not sought out. Personally though i only take those articles with a grain of salt because if we are alive today it means we have a good gene pool.
I agree with Savannah that girls tend to treat guys so well and then fall flat on their faces cause the guy may just be interested in her physically or whatever reason. It's known fact that females do this also for psychological reasons say for example dad is a "asshole" or never there so the girl find a guy that is emotionally available and since she can't change her dad who is set in his ways this boyfriend, just maybe with time and patience he can be changed and made into a commitment type, but as you know that never works.
Next off you brought into the kinda of guys you liked Savannah...important thing people are neglecting if physical characteristics that we tend to like and as i mentioned above somewhere some nice guys are nice because they try compensate for things they believe they are lacking.
If you don't mind list what you would consider the top characteristics for a guy you'd like to just have fun with please Savannah?
This is my list just off my experience, first and foremost comes Height. Then in the assumption this is just a guy for fun and giggles, then muscular well toned or defined male. In short tall dark and handsome just so i don't list everything.Though in my case it was cause I lacked experience, the irony of this statement is that i would have to be given a chance by someone to have had experience.
In case someone tries to ask for the female of it, in all honesty the only physical problems a girl can have is if she's to tall, which unless your model is a problem or if your obese. I say obese not chubby or fat because if you are chubby or fat you can wear clothing that makes you look skinnier....and any other physical problem a girl might have there's makeup and surgery to solve for it.Now not everyone has money for surgery but compared to a guy girls have more things to make them look more physically appealing. A guy that say has a height issue is kinda messed up and if they are shy or insecure it's double problem. A girl that is tall if she's insecure can still get a guy as i mentioned above a guy has to initiate the convos anyways.
That's roughly what i said i condensed it alot cause as i can never write the same thing twice. Curious on the debate on this one.
Oh if you only knew...
Read on after this paragraph!
Guy for a "certain kind of fun"...well...it's someone who knows when not to talk about deep things, somewhat spur of the moment, keeps my mind off of the real things that keep me up at night and makes me feel amazingly attractive but I'd have to admit it's also the guy that knows his time with me will be very short lived as this kind of fun is only useful when not able to handle a real relationship...right after a divorce for example.
My description of men that looked alike happened in high school and the first year of college after that my taste changed. I find a confident, positive, funny, somewhat introverted, philosophical, person exhilerating. There's more of course that appeals to me and are must haves. But, I'd be lying if I said looks and chemistry didn't matter. It matters to get you to look. No one is wearing a sign that says, "I'm confident and more baby get to know me." The look is what gets you to notice but there are empty beautiful people and people who are beautiful inside and out.
Surgery- all for it. If it makes you feel better when you look in the mirror- you're only as young as you feel. In some cases it buys you years.
Savannah Jones
by the time you're in your forties and fifties.......you want the nice guy and nice is someone who treats you well. Puts your needs up with his. Doesn't cheat and helps you live out your dreams. Sex is huge in your forties for a woman. We're at our peak. I have my tubes all tied up and it makes me free to just let myself go. It's a turn on for most men. We like brave men like Savannah mentioned. Brave being take us by surprise and know when to let us breathe. I had a kiss out of this world by a man but he didn't know when to let up for air and it ruined it. A kiss...lips slight brushing of tongue but not all the way in. We aren't in high school any more and women will try and react to the kiss by following along so kissing a guy like we don't really like happens. Lack of experience I don't buy it is a reason for problems. Why not let her show you the way?
I work with a diverse group of people and the nicest man is our favorite man. We are all attracted to him and all want to date him. He's so great and we all fantasize about him. It's fine with me that he's divorced from his high school sweetheart and only dated one woman since. The women at work find that sexy. I wonder about the studies and who is taking them. Are they in their forties and divorced or in their twenties and looking on the prowl?
Aww nothing to debate with you this time Savannah
Well anonymous 40's and 50's how many people did you date before then and where any of them nice and under the assumption i'm being adressed for the experience. well what happens is as savannah said above the guy that wishes to just have fun time already has to know what the girl wants or needs to feel attractive and not concentrate on her problems so the female in question is not going to be patient and show a person clearly lacking in experience what she'd like though you'd think that this sorta pet project be in the "fixer" girls alley.Also some females tend to expect a guy know just how to do things for them and get infuriated when they can't which is another thing those girls that say the experience thing probably don't know what they like yet and couldn't explain it to save their life.
Anonymous number 2 for today i don't really need to read up on "nice guy syndrome" or the "friendzone" or any other thing associated with nice guys to know that articles are going to say that scientifically the "hunter genes" aka "bad boy genes" are sought after. Though to address you more clearly like about 98% of women will always say they want to date a nice guy chances are they have a nice guy in their life but they refuse to date them. I call this what they like on paper not what they choose to be with. To wrap it up ideally the reason why there's a huge debate on whether or not nice guys finish last is if you look at how long it takes a girl to realize that they need a nice guy in their life which the earliest a girl will realize this is college so around early 20's but it's more common in their early 30's i would think, i'm giving gals the benefit here.There's also the quantity of women every other kinda guy manages to date compared to the nice guy or fool around with cause believe me not all nice guys want to be in serious relationship.See the key problems there, as a nice guy we have to wait and as we already labeled the long term relationship type we don't get a choice of what kind of relationship we can get. Take notice i didn't mentioned quality above, you can honestly date a large number of people but they could of all been poor quality of dates more specifically only satisfying on one level like during the initial infatuation phase of a relationship or it could just really be a bad relationship from the get go. In that sense quality can be up for grabs from a nice guy that's only dated maybe 3 or 4 times and each time he's taken huge lessons and more of what he wants from a relationship vs the "Bad boy" who just get sex out of his relationship and doesn't necessarily get any sort of meaning from the relationship.
Which is why long term nice guys win cause they get better quality in the long run, other guys may never get the quality they want or are to commitaphobic to attain it even though they've had higher quantity of partners.
Savannah,
You are "amazingly attractive" inside and out. You feel that way when with someone who appreciates it I think.
In and out that's the bad boy's game. Catch and release. I think there's a movie by that title.
Nice guy- lingers without much else going on.
Should we address lack of experience Savannah? That would be a sex talk wouldn't it, not your style. I've heard that those who talk talk because they can't come through and those who don't...experts in hiding. Is there truth to this. Anyone Anyone
I really shouldn't be answering these but since i feel i should clarify on what i mean by experience.
Experience is something as simple as kissing to as complex as sex.I personally believe no one innately has experience its just a matter of confidence that allows a person to slide by if they are just bumbling into an action there secretly uncomfortable with cause they lack experience.
"I think she's attracted to James. I think that that's a real thing that they have and she's afraid of it because it's too real. And she's not necessarily attracted to Ryan's character. I mean, it's just easy. It's supposed to be filling some void and maybe she thinks for one second that it is but obviously it's just gouging it out more and more. Then it becomes like a sort of masochistic thing because she feels like that's all she deserves. She's never going to have a real [relationship]. She's too closed down for that, so it's like well, if this is all there is, then I'm just going to keep doing it. Then when she meets him, it's like she sees like wow, I actually may have the capacity for more and that's scary. To be yourself around someone, it's almost too much. It's like if they could both just realize that they were great and stop being so insecure, they could probably have each other comfortably, but they're too caught up in themselves."
Found this and it's from a movie coming out by kristen stewart how many people have heard this before? And if so how'd they manage to get around the insecurities?
It died all of a sudden : (. Oh well was fun while it lasted thanks again savannah
Kaiowolffy,
Here's what I've observed on my site... Whatever is on the front of the site, is what gets the attention. Usually I receive emails, or have friends that ask for me to cover and/or revisit a topic. Nice guys will probably be asked for me to revisit again. Anything on the front is what has been most requested. I found it's not how many comments that show how many visitors. One of my pieces that has the least comments had the most visits. Sometimes the stuff that deeply hits home isn't something everyone wants to talk about. Your opinions are always welcome on the other pieces. You are a great visitor.
Savannah Jones
i was seeing this girl who went our her way to come and talk to me all the time as we picked up our kids up at school then well eventually we started hanging out with the kids at the park. she tells me her exboyrfriend was takin her kids to the movies and she felt horrible and whatever. So she asks me to come over for dinner and i ended up spending the night over there we didnt have sex but we very close she gives me a big hug when i leave now its like a week later and we been seeing each other all the time she has a guy call my phone which is her old nieghbor to tell me that i had the wrong idea and that she is involved still with her ex and that i should back off so i just said ok and hung up thing is this girl was like almost a perfect match i aint ever had that much fun with a girl that had the same level of humour as mine just didnt make sense to me but oh well
Above,
Sorry to hear that you thought you had something special and then it changed. Sometimes people are looking for an excuse to not go back to the same old thing (ex boyfriend) other times, things just don't always have a reason but happen and minds change. As far as this being a perfect match...a perfect match would be someone open and available to you without a guy calling you saying the ex boyfriend is still around. I'm friends with ex boyfriends but the relationship changes when I want to spend time with others.
Savannah Jones
i started off as a bad boy towards this girl when we just started hanging out. Slowly as we expressed interest in each other, i became sweet and caring towards her. Now i feel that we are getting more distant. I don't understand...
Do you mind if I put your comment and question on the front to renew interest in Nice Guy ideas? Where I will do my best to answer this.
Savannah Jones
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